doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Anyone Familiar with Belgian Maker Paul Schraff

Hello All,

I have a 20ga. Belgian gun from another unknown maker or seller. The only clear identifier is this legend stamped on the top of the barrels: Paul Schraff Armurier Bruxelles.

I have been unable to find the name Paul Schraff anywhere so far, either online (including searching this board -- there was one old reference to a D. Schraff gun) or in any books/catalogs that I've been able to put my hands on. I'm not sure if he was actually a maker, or simply a reseller. Given the broad knowledge on this board, I thought I'd see if anyone here has run across the name before.

I'll post some pictures below. What you'll see is what appears to be Francotte action. Looks like their typical Knock-About. The gun has the usual Belgian proof marks and a date code for 1930. Serial number is 8455.

There is a mark on either barrel that is a pair of crossed cannons surrounded by the works "Trade Mark". I'm sure I've seen this mark somewhere before, but can't remember if it is a barrel maker or maybe a gun maker's mark.

Thank you all for any help.

Paul Schraff, was a retailer and was located in Brussels Rue Royale, 17 (king street).
The gunshop still exist, it is now the business of Paul Binet.
Marc

Thank you! I appreciate the information. I suspected he may have been a retailer, but could find no reference.

I guess I'll have to make a point of going to Brussels some time and visiting Maison Binet! Thank you again!

Schraff opened his business in 1924. As the gun trade began to decline in Liege (a largely French speaking area), more shops were opened in Brussels. These makers often had German or Flemish roots. Marc may have more about this...

The gun was proofed in 1930. It was nitro proofed. At the time of proof the barrels weighed 1.216 Kgs (2.68 lbs).

It was chambered for 20ga 70mm shells.

I am not familiar with the crossed canons trade mark. I can only assume it was Schraff's mark. I have seen other guns by him with Cockerill barrels. I saw one of his guns sold in Europe for $1,300 or so. It had less engraving.

Pete

Thank you Pete.

The stamp of the crossed cannons is similar to the early Krupp steel stamp. I'd like to see a close-up of what has been scratched out. I wonder if it is Krupp Lauf Stahl, Krupp Fluid Steel or something of the like.




Krupp logo on Imm. Meffert Dural - Wotan


Subject stamps


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

It does look similar. I took the forend off again tonight and you just cannot make out what was under the scratching; not even with a magnifying glass and flash light. I even tried to make a rubbing. You can tell there was lettering there at one point, but whoever obliterated the mark knew what they were doing.

Does the L.B. in the circle near the barrel flats tell us anything?

Appreciate your input!

The markings on the bbl look like they were taken out with a liner tool as used by an engraver for shading cuts.
The underlying X pattern is from going back and forth over the marks with a flat graver (maybe even the same liner) beforehand in a wriggle cut.

It pretty much destroys the ability to read what was there but sometimes under extreme power (20-30X) you can make out some remaining letters.
One of the hand held machinist inspection tube magnifiers (I think that's what they're called?) is handy for that. Mine's an old B&L and IIRC is 30x.
A line scale inside shows .010" in .001" increments, and everything is upside down,,,but it's handy anyway.

If the rib marking is hand cut, perhaps the same engraver was instructed to obliterate the bbl marking.
Most any bench 'smith of that time could handle a simple liner tool & hammer and could have done the job on the markings.

Just some thoughts..

For the encircled LB, somewhat oval in nature, probability lies toward Lhermite & Bruyninckx:

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...ninckx%20gb.htm

I believe the concern was centered around fishing components so there's some question of their involvement as well as a lack of info. The stamp is on both tubes but worked off some on the right. As Peter mentions, times were becoming difficult & concerns would switch horses to make money on what they could. So it is possible that fishing component supplier Lhermite & Bruyninckx somehow made or finished the tubes.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post155612

cross ref to previous encircled LB thread:
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post155612
where an Louis Brancquaert of Brussels is mentioned but the general consensus is that he was a firearms merchant:
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20b/a%20brancquaert%20gb.htm

Can you tell how many words, or sets of letters, on the phrase that's been scratched thru? Between the 455 on the lower rib & the scratch what is stamped between them on the underside of the right tube?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

It seems that tubes wearing an encircled LB, or LB in an oval, are quite common in the 1920s. Maybe PeteM can comment, but it seems odd that there is a date stamp but also the bore in a rhombus? Anyway, so it is possible that the Lhermitte & Bruyninckx concern switch to sporting weapons, or in tandem, with their fishing components. Interesting that L. Ory, if the same Ory as partnered with Duquenne, dabbled in both fishing reels and sporting weapons:
http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20no/a%20ory%20and%20duquenne%20gb.htm


http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/art...yninck%20gb.htm
There was another LB, Lambert & Bruyninck, but it seems to have been LEB and sourced LB for tubes? Maybe at some point Bruyninck/Bruyninckx changed partners?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse