doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Canadian & UK Gun Laws

I'm reaching out to our CD & UK friends to ask a favor.

Could you please tell me exactly what the gun ownership laws are in your countries?

I'm asking this favor because I realized today that I am woefully ignorant of the gun ownership/gun control laws are as applied to the citizenry.

The impetus for this was the school shooting today in the US state Ohio. I hadn't heard of it until someone mentioned it to me in the early afternoon. It sparked a conversation of the "what will happen here?" nature. At one point the restriction of gun ownership in Canada and Great Britain was brought up. I disappointed myself tremendously when I realized I could not speak with any assuredness on this topic, other than sputtering bits and pieces of vague memories of AMERICAN RIFLEMAN articles that dimly flashed in my brain.

I may as well have just said "they're bad", for all the authority my blithering did carry.

So please, educate me in the "law of the land" for your respective countries. Although the only country across the seas mentioned in the discussion was England, I am again displaying my ignorance by assuming they would also hold true for Ireland and Scotland as well(?).

I greatly appreciate any help offered. - Marc

p.s. Yes, to retain any information culled here, I'm going to "save it" in this whizz-bang electric box I'm hammering on now.

Marc - UK firearms laws (different for both shotgun and firearms) are a veritable minefield of complexity, which generally the police force for the applicants local area will handle the process. My personal experience of this is very positive - but this is not always the case, and there have been instances of localised interpretation of Government Home Office legislation/guidance. A useful FAQ for you from the Metropolitan Police, licensing authority for London;

http://www.met.police.uk/firearms_licensing/faqs.html

In addition, although Wiki's can sometimes be misleading, this actually also contains a good amount of historical and current context.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom

I have not noticed a demonstrable toughening of the already strict gun licensing laws in the past 6 or 7 years, but there have been a number of (tragic) major incidents - Cumbria the latest - which saw a raft of knee-jerk media and political reactions as to demanding greater gun control. Thankfully the measured and in-depth review by the police did not lead to any further changes and the current government held off from jumping into rushed legislation; but with fewer and fewer members of the general public being involved in shooting or gun ownership, the societal pressures on shooters regrettably seems to increase.

I posted an interesting piece about the gun law fight(Brady Bunch) today and the real crime statistics in the United States over in the "Misfires" area. I will make only one assertion here. Ever since concealed carry has become almost universally available in this Country the violent crime rate has steadily declined. Go over there and read the attached article I provided.
Jim

In a nutshell:

In the UK you have the right to own shotguns (Section 2 weapons). The police MUST grant you a licence for shotgun ownership unless they can prove that it is against the public interest for you to have one. You do have to provide adequate security and your guns must be securely locked away when you are not using them.

To own a rifle, Section 1 weapon) you need to show the police why you need it. For example, ask for a .22 rimfire to shoot deer and the answer will be 'NO', as it will be if you ask for a .470 NE to shoot rabbits with.

Let's say you have land with deer and ask for a.243 with which to shoot them - they will give you a licence unless they have a good reason not to.

Under Section 58 of the Firearms act 1967, you can own a whole range of 'obsolete' pistols and rifles - designated as such by mechanism (e.g pinfire) or calibre ( e.g .44 Russian). As long as you just hang these on the wall and don't try to use them, you don't need a licence. For a full list of Obsolete calibres, see my website INFORMATION page.

Certain weapons are 'Prohibited' and cannot be owned without special permission under Section 5 of the Firearms act (For example a shotgun with barrel less than 24 1/4")

In Canada, anyone over the age of 18 can own as many firearms as they want provided they have taken a course, passed the exam and application procedure, and obtained what is known as a PAL. If they wish to own restricted weapons, such as handguns, they must take an additional component to their course and obtain an RPAL.

The bottom line is that unless an individual has some sort of criminal charges against him, or is a public safety risk, virtually anyone can own firearms.

We can ship them directly to each other, no FFL dealer required. Rifles and shotguns do not need to be registered any longer (once the bill passes the Senate). We cannot carry handguns, except to and from approved ranges, unless the handgun qualifies as an antique. There are certain prohibited weapons such as fully auto guns, handguns with very short barrels and in certain calibers, sawed off shotguns, etc.

Do you want anything on Australian laws, too? I'll give it to you anyway:

It varies from state to state, but bits of both the UK and Canada are familiar.
In short, licenses are granted if one can satisfy the police-administered licensing authority that one has documentary evidence of a "genuine reason" (ususally primary production, hunting, and / or target shooting; note that personal protection is not one unless you're a licensed security guard) to hold a license, are of sound character and mind, and pass a safety test. With exceptions for antique arms of muzzle loading or obsolete calibre, all arms must be registered, and may only be acquired if one can satisfy the registry that there is a genuine reason to own the firearm.
Arms are generally categorised A (rimfire and single/double shotgun), B (Centrefire rifle), C (self-loading rimfire and shotgun), D (self loading centrfire), E (automatic etc) or H (handgun). A and B are easy enough to get, but C is much harder with stringent requirements, D nearly impossible, and E...! There are some anomalies in this - eg pump shotguns are c, but pump centrefire rifles are B. Handguns may only be used on a range, and the process of getting H lic is quite lengthy. All firearms must be under sturdy lock and key, separate to ammunition (which must also be locked away)

Various "outrages" committed over the last 15-20 years or so have provided the impetus for antis' knee-jerk tightenings of laws here, most notably that hateful little man Prime Minister John "I hate guns" Howard's response in the hysterical atmosphere after Port Arthur in 1996. He still regards it as his finest achievement.
RG

Thanks, Kirk. That's a good summation. The PAL license is for Possession and Acquisition.

KK: to answer your questions regarding Canadian firearms laws and regulations check out this link:
http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/index-eng.htm

The Canadian "long-gun registry" is not dead yet. The stake appears about to be driven thru its heart, BUT it's still in the hands of the politicians. Suspicious person that I be, I'm not celebrating yet.
Parliament Hill vet 1994 and 1998. Loved it in 1994 when Allan Rock was ridiculed away from the mikes with 24K voices LOUDLY chanting BULLSH*T, BULLSH*T........not reported or shown by the CBC (of course).

An excellent summary of the basics. But the devil's in the details!

What KirkD's post fails to convey is the extraordinarily biased interpretation and application of the regulations, to the detriment of gun owners.

It is utterly common knowledge here in Canada that if your marriage fails, get the guns out of your name because if you don't, with just the slightest nudge from the ex's lawyer, the courts and police will.

Your home just got robbed? They broke into your safe? You will be charged at the very least with unsafe storage. Even if it took the thieves three days while you were away on holidays to break into your gun vault.

Someone at the Firearms Centre (anti gun bureaucrat) decides a certain gun, currently classified as legal as it meets all technical requirements, looks too much like some other "prohibited" guns? Reclassify and use the registry to find them and instruct the police to go confiscate the offending guns, no compensation. Problem solved.

Your 4 year old draws a picture of daddy with a gun, protecting her from the "bad guys and monsters" and find yourself arrested, strip searched, your home searched without a warrant and the rest of your family interviewed by police who won't even explain why. And not an apology to be found from any of the agencies involved. Not the elementary school, who knew the father and called social services, not the social services who called the police and are still "investigating" the family and not the police, who claimed the 4 year olds drawing was similar to other descriptions of a gun used in recent crimes.

What a simple summary of the laws doesn't tell you is the enthusiasm exhibited by the upper levels of law enforcement, all strata of social services, and the unthinking freedom fearing general population have for infringing on the rights of those who would disagree with them.

All of the above examples are happening now, in Canada.

It would be interesting to know if the zeal of the anti gun crowd has similarly got the best of them in GB and Australia. Are the laws easy to understand, for both layman and courts and are they applied in an even handed manner?

I have just edited this to say that, given Forum rules, perhaps this thread should have been posted in Misfires.

canvasback:
Your post above is a real eye opener and shows what will happen once you start down the socialist road.
We had another unfortunate school shooting in Ohio today with one student dead. The anti's here will begin screaming for more gun control again.
I guess I have to be thankful that differences when I was in school way back in the 60s were settled with fists. I couldn't even begin to conceive of anyone bringing a gun to school with the intent of harming another back then. Oh we frequently bought our guns to schools since we'd try to get in a couple of hours of rabbit** or bird hunting when we got out for the day.
Jim
** As an aside: I truly miss running those big Snowshoe hares that we used to hunt in Western MA when I was a teenager. There was nothing like running those with hounds. Does anyone on the forum still hunt these rabbits this way?