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Brit "pound sterling" equals 20 shillings.
A Brit "guinea" equals 21 shillings.
I don't know how the "guinea" evolved, but I suspect it had a lot to do with English "class distinction" (a one shilling "tip" already built in, maybe??)

1 guinea : 1 pound 1 shilling
therefore,16 guineas : 16 pounds 16 shillings
i am sure this is the conversion rate at the time.
cheers

ian nixon
sorry to almost replicate your post,i must have been typing at the time you posted.i also do not know the origin of guineas but as late as the 1960's some sellers still advertised in guineas as a marketing ploy as 60 g for example didnt seem much more than £60 when in reality it was £63.rather similar to the present gimmick of advertising goods at 19.95 instead of 20,to give the imression of a deal.
i am an admirer of greener guns and my friend shoots with a fh35 but for some reason it is rather plain although more importantly it feels and handles superb.
cheers

Your gun has early (pre 1904) Birmingham black powder proofs. The rod going through the front lump indicates it's of the facile princeps design, not the A&D design (the two can look identical from the outside). Both bbls had some degree of choke. The 12 over 30 on the bbls puzzles me. 12 is obviously the nominal bore but 30 is a mystery. Never seen one like that. May have something to do with the brass cases. If it is chambered for brass, the chambers will be too tight for a regular 12 ga shell.

It occurrs to me that 30 grams is just over 1 oz so this gun may have been reproofed on the continent at some time, the marks 12 and 30 having been added. I can't read the symbol nearest the muzzle, but it shouldn't be there I don't think.

The gun has damascus bbls that were proofed at .751 bore (11 bore).

Looks like the stock has been off (screws on the safety are not timed), probably for a refinish at some time.

Saku, WE need to know what number is in the diamond shape proof mark.That is the chamber size.It will be either a 12 over C, or 10 over C . By the Proof Rules up to 1887,10 ga. guns that have slightly undersize bores at proof,ie. under .775, would be stamped 11 .I have seen plenty of these.On the other hand,an overbored 12 made for thin brass cases,which measured over .750 at proof would also be stamped 11. Check out those diamonds, or try and chamber a 10 ga. cartridge.

I'll call the owner and ask for better images or explanation on the proof marks via phone.

I also have to ask him to chamber some 12 and 10 ga brass & regulars.

Thanks!!

I'll let you know as soon as I get some further info.

Regards,
Saku

Good morning W Martin.
No need to be "sorry" at all - we obviously were typing at the same time - I just hit "Send" before you. Enjoyed your comments about Brit money. I had to learn my LSD during the six weeks of summer 1963 when I was the (18 year old) family escort for my 80 year old grandmother on her last visit back to New Mills, Dunfermline in Fife(?) When I was actually handling the odd Brit coins my "frugal Scot" ethnicity kicked in and learned "LSD" really fast.
I read this thread because of my (only) Greener. It's a FH35, Facile Princeps two barrel cased set. 26" and 32" barrels both showing "20 over LC" within the diamond, both proofed with 2-7/8" shells, English hand, double triggers, serial no. 67,XXX.
Bought it for my wife (LOP 13-5/8") but she much prefers her Remington 1100 Light-20 (SERIOUS Gaaaarrrrgh).

Terry & Doublegunhq,

in the diamond there's 12 over C and at the underside of the back end of the barrels it says 12 over "BC" not 30 as it looked in that blurry photo I sent.

BC may then suggest for example 'brass case' but are there any other possible explanations?

The owner hadn't tried to chamber brass shells nor regulars yet.

Regards,
Saku

ian nixon
glad i sparked memories of your distant trip(in time and distance).
that sounds like a marvelous greener you have,and i hope it gets some use(for what quarry do you use the 32 inch,geese?)
my friends fh35 is a standard 28 game gun with side safe,a and d action, and no cross bolt. i have used it on occasion and shoot it well (i feel most standard british guns seem to find the target!) but i am not keen on the side safety.
if your wife is happy with the remington i would let it be until she discovers the hidden pleasures and mystic of a british double for herself.
cheers

The guinea
A guinea was £1-1s-0d (which is £1.05) and could be written as '1g' or '1gn' or, in the plural, '3gs' or '3gns'. It was considered a more gentlemanly amount than £1. You paid tradesmen, such as a carpenter, in pounds but gentlemen, such as an artist, in guineas. It was a tradition in the legal profession that a barrister was paid in guineas but kept only the pounds, giving his clerk the shillings (they were all men then).

In the 1850s and 60s the standard rate paid by Dickens for contributions to his weekly periodicals Household Words and All The Year Round was half a guinea a column or a guinea a page. His staff members were generally paid five guineas a week. In the early 1850s, before he worked for Dickens, Wilkie Collins was paid five-eighths of a guinea a page for his work in Bentley's Miscellany. That odd amount was worked out from the rate of ten guineas for a printed sheet of sixteen pages. Per word, both amounts were similar.

Like the pound, the guinea could also be divided exactly into many different amounts - halves, thirds, quarters, sixths, sevenths, ninths, fourteenths, twenty-firsts, twenty-eighths, thirty-sixths, forty-seconds, sixty-thirds, eighty-fourths, and one-hundred-and-twenty-sixths. One useful factor was that a third of a guinea was exactly seven shillings.

So is solved the riddle of the guinae.