doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Need Info On a Suhl Drilling

I have just bought a nice 16x16/8x57 drilling with no marks other than REMO on the rib. On examination of the other marks and action it is identical in every respect to an Im Meffert I have except the Meffert does not have a Star of David over a large H and the unmarked gun does. This is on the bottom of the barrel. The Meffert is marked 1137 on the rifle barrrel and the other gun has no date I can find. Is it possible the REMO has a Meffert action with Krupp Fluss-stahl barrels and the Star of David because it was made before the Nazis ran the Meffert family out? Did Meffert use a Star of David over a large H as a mark?

Maybe this helps you....

http://readingbreak.com/features/JohnG/1/GEHA.htm

The Nazis did indeed, possess a strange sense of humor. The Smiling face on the Herz (heart) may have come from the patronage of the uber-wealthy Kesselring family. Their eldest son, Albert- was "Ein Feldmarschall" and until the failed attempt on Hitler at the Wolfschantz in June 1944 (Wolf's Lair in Rastenburg/Prussia) was known as "Smilin' Al- and was loved by his troops, both Offizer und Soldaten alike.

More examples-- One night at the Berlin Opera Haus- a featured Wagner "Gotterdamerung" production- the lead tenor came on stage resplendent and bedecked with ribbons and sashes and shiny medals- and a German Frau exclaimed out loud to her husband- Mein Gott- Ist dem Herman Goring und pyjamas??

After the Nuremburg Acts of 1934- Jewish businessmen became disenfranchised in Germany and Simson was one of them, the Nazis did not differentiate between a baker and a gun maker in their dislike of the Jews, so the Star of David stamp was removed, just as you said..

Thanks for the info on REMO. It is the identical gun to the Meffert except for the marks. The Remo is marked "Prime" around one barrel and "Steel" around the other on the breeches.
"Krupp Fluss Stahl Essen" on the bottom of the barrel right at the solder joint on the rib.

Without photos of the gun and especially all the marks I will not join the discussion. I know about no "star of david(???)/H) official stamp. And, other than the Simsons, the Mefferts were not jewish. The family owned the company until 1946, when they were dispropriated by the Soviets, but Georg Meffert was retained as a Manager until 1959 when the "people-owned" company was finally liquidated and the Mefferts fled to west Germany. In fact, the 1930s were the most productive time of the pure sporting-arms maker Meffert. Only from 1942 on they were drafted to make parts for military armament.

The remarks on a relation of the smiling face to Albert Kesselring is simply absurd! Those shotguns based on converted M98 actions were made during the 1920s, when the Versailles treaty was still in force and the Nazis were still a small political party. At that time Albert Kesselring was still an unimportant captain and major, being promoted to lieutenant colonel in 1931. After Hitler came to power in 1933, there was no reason any more to convert M98 rifle actions to civilian shotguns, though existing stocks of such conversions lasted for a few years.
BTW, that article by that"John" is completely useless. It consists mainly of misconceptions and mistakes.

Axel, your response seems somewhat watered down. Tell us what you really think. The "Star" over "H" stamp is that of the tube-maker/finisher. It is the touchmark of a craftsman and I would say it originates at H�nel.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Photos, please! How "identical" are the Remo and Merkel drillings? They may be only of the same Standard Suhl design. At least, the gun with the inscrition "prime steel" in English was certainly originally made for export. Most Suhl gunmakers got their rough forgings from the same sources, either the Sauer or Schilling forge. Many farmed out work to the same independent action filers, stockers and engravers.
I have asked around German shotgun collectors. Noone in Germany has ever seen a GEHA-type shotgun with the "Hard Hit Heart" logo, so IMHO this was the mark of an American importer. Alas, appliing funny names to guns was more an American custom than a German. Remember the also 1920s Mossberg "Little Brownie" pistol, named for a then-popular cartoon?
BTW, ecept for those shotguns, the GEHA logo is unknown. But the magazine conversion is different from the REMO guns. There were two German patents for such conversions, one issued to Gebr. Rempt, the other to Emil Hengelhaupt. As the GEHA guns are made to Hengelhaupt's patent/design, Geha may stand for "Gebr�der Hengelhaupt". No less than 44 Hengelhaupts are listed in the Suhl/Zella-Mehlis guntrade. "Ge Ha" is what a German speaks when he reads the letters G and H.

Ya- Das ist korrekt- Ge-Ha has nothing to do with giddy-hup horses either)-- My best source for ID'ing the German proof marks, dating back to 1891- is the article on pages 222 and 223 of the Stoeger's 1954 ed. of their great "Shooter's Bible" and I'll bet a liter of Warsteiner that whatever the "star' in question is here, it has 5 points and no more--Goes to the 1933-34 Nuremberg Laws that forbade any stars used for any ID purpose to have more than 5 points- that regulation is still in effect today. It is a form of inspection stamp, but NOT the same as the "Star Gauged" rifles barrels here in the USA

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Looks like a Star of David to me. Certainly has 6 points. It immediately precedes the "Fluss Stahl -Essen" marking on the bottom of the barrel

The literal translation of the inscription on the barrel breech is "Primary Steel". It is in German not English.