doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 2 3/4' Chambers in British Doubles

Have British 12ga barrels been chambered for 2 3/4" or 2 1/2" shells from the start or are the 2 3/4" chambers found only in more recently made barrels? I guess that what I am really asking is can you use the presence of original 2 3/4" chambers to determine the earliest possible age for a gun?
Thanks, Jim

Most period 12 bore English doubles were had chambers of 2-1/2 inches. They could, most probably, have been ordered with longer chambers. English wildfowl guns typicall have chambers of 2-7/8 or 3 inches. My guess that many English guns being produced in recent years will have 2-3/4 inch chambers. Beware of early English guns that have 2-3/4 inch chambers that have been bored out. They would be out of proof and cannot be legally sold there or shipped over here.

Best regards, George

George - I bought a beautiful Westley Richards from Jack Dudley's La Becasse (second location)10 years or so ago. The chambers were rebored to 2 3/4" and then re-proofed, sometime in the eighties.

In our discussion about the gun Jack opined that it was probably done because the Brit was planning on shipping it to the US and thought this chambering would make it more popular here.

Whatever the reason, British guns can be rebored and proofed again for that length. This would be in keeping with the legality of shipping them here.

I hope I'm not coming off like I'm shaking a stick at you as if you were wrong. Not at all! I agree with you, I wouldn't trust an old Brit gun that was proofed at 2 1/2" and had longer chambers.

My only concern was to point out to the original poster that a gun can always be proofed, again and again if needed or desired. Longer chambers are OK to trust on an old English gun providing the gun has the corresponding proof marks.

This obviously doesn't apply if the gun has gotten abused in ways that would make it an unsafe gun.

British guns built for sale in America (later ones anyway) were usually originally chambered 2.75". I have a Webley&Scott Model 700 16ga imported by Abercrombie&Fitch back in the early '60s with original 2 3/4" chambers. It also has matching hairline cracks in the stock behind the frame indicating to me that an owner along the way shot 'high brass' American 16ga loads in it...Geo

What do y'all think the total cost to reproof would be? That would include finding someone to ship, receive, proof, etc. and return. Also, is this a lengthy process?

The 2 3/4"inch is an older load and was used in more powerful guns like pigeon and fowlers. I know of no way to date a gun based on 2 3/4" chambering.

I prefer 2 1/2" guns left as found. However, a properly proofed 2 3/4" chambered gun is certainly not automatically rejected. The "trick" of shooting old guns is to keep pressure down and recoil down. This can be done easily with 2 3/4" hulls with proper factory loads or reloads. 2 3/4" chambers DO NOT automatically make a vintage gun suitable for SAAMI standard ammo.

A friend of mine is looking at an 1890s British sidelock with only blackpowder London proofs and 2-3/4" chambers that appear to be orginal. Any ideas there?

Thanks,

Mike

Agreed.

High quality Vintage English barrels were built around the intended hull length.

Original 2 & 3/4" chambered barrels will be allot thicker in the chamber area and heavier in weight than a 2 & 1/2" chambered barrel will be. I've saw allot of guns that were reproofed for 2 & 3'4" that had very light weight barrels and noticeably thin chambers...I looked at two this past week with 3" re-proofs, the chamber walls were as thin as my 6 lb, 2 & 1/2 chambered gun.

On a vintage gun all that re-proofing means to me is it didn't blow up that time....unless you just want something to play Vintager with you better look deeper than proofs.

Mike if it's original I'd expect to be looking at a 7 lb plus gun.

A good question as to when guns were first chambered to 2 3/4". I have a circa 1880's Jeffery hammer live pigeon gun with original 2 3/4" chambers. Nothing on the proof marks to indicate this but a small 2 3/4" mark was stamped onto the forend fastener of the barrels. It was black powder proof and I have since had it proofed for nitro.

The Proof House in Birmingham may be able to answer your question on that.

Cost of submission for proof is a little over �20 per barrel. The real cost comes in with preparation, if any is required, as it would be rejected at the 'View' stage if the gun is off face, has any pitting or is defective in any way. From America the cost of shipping both ways is an expensive consideration too. Lagopus.....