doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Rook rifles?

Good Morning Gents!

Who made all these look alike rifles? I suppose all these makers put their names on somebody else's rifles?
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Rook-Ri...A2AF14DDECCCC96

Hello Sliver,

Most, if not all of the better known British Gunsmiths offered Rook Rifles for the best part of forty years towards the end of the 19th.C. and the first decade or so of the 20th.C.

Some of these would be bought in, in a part finished condition and the gunmaker would do the final setting up and fitting, then stocked it and engraved their name on the barrel.

Thanks to Wal Winfer it is now known that many of the 'famous names' in British Gunmaking bought actions in and built finished rifles from them. Greener, Webley, Francotte and smaller makers are all suspected, or known, to have been supplying the trade with actions. Army and Navy and perhaps E.M.Reilly & Co just sold complete rifles they had bought in, and all they actually did was engrave their names on finished items.

Most of these are charming little rifles and were very reasonable priced, they were very popular with both landowners and gamekeepers for keeping down vermin at ranges beyond that of a shotgun. Eventually they fell out of use because of improvements in .22 rimfire ammunition, which was also considerably cheaper to buy and just as efficient at the ranges these Rook & Rabbit Rifles were generally used.

The English author Colin Greenwood has a book out on these rifles and their ammunition, and I understand Wal Winfer also has one nearly ready for publication. The rapid increase in prices being paid for these rifles is due mainly to good specimens being hard to come by these days, sadly not all of them were treated with the reverence due to them in the days of BP and early nitro powders and corrosive primers.

Harry

Harry,

Thank you so much for your detailed answer. I have recently acquired one that was made into a 410. Lovely small action. It must have suffered from the same pitted bore disease. It used to be a .250 cal

I believe Webley & Scott may have made the lion's share of them. Woodward retailed a number of such guns.

A lot were rebarrelled to .410 mainly because of availability of suitable ammunition. I have one with Ebrall Bros. name on that was converted to .410 back in 1939/40 according to the proof marks. One of the problems were that they used to have to be included on a Firearms Certificate with stricter requirements than the Shotgun Certificate and as ammo became scarce they were difficult to justify owning so were bored out to .410 or re-tubed to .22rf. Original ones in good order became scarce. Now they are classified as antiques and do not require any certification if just kept as pure collectors items. Anyone can now buy and own them without restriction so that they have become attractive as investment antiques thus driving up the price. I have one just like those shown on the above web site in .360 No.5 calibre which is English make but has no name on. One made in the trade but never sold on to a 'maker' in all probability. It has most of its colour hardening and an octagonal twist steel barrel. I use mine so have them on my Firearms Certificate and make ammo from .38 Special pistol cases. Lovely little guns that would cost a pretty packet to make today. The principal idea behind them was for shooting rooks up in the tree tops. The heavy slow bullet would kill the bird but would not travel far and do damage outside of a narrow radius; England being a crowded place.

Harry, who is Wal Winfer and his book? I would like to get hold of a copy having an interest in Rook rifles. I have Colin Greenwood's book. I just wish he had taken the time to come to one of our twice yearly rook rifle target shoots he would have collected a lot more information and examples to photograph from doubles by Holland & Holland to double pin-fire ones and loads of action types not described in his book. Lagopus.....

Wal and Tom Rowe are making progress on the Rook rifle book the major problem is there are a lot of them. Colin Greenwood's book is a start but Wall's should be much more complete and as Tom is the photographer the pictures will be much better. I helped Tom photograph nearly 100 rook rifles lots of work but I did learn a bit about taking pictures.
Cheers,
Laurie

Lagopus,
Wall is an Australian and has 6 books on English Single Shot rifles published by Tom Rowe. He tries to get as much information as he can so the books are very informative.
Cheers,
Laurie

Hi everyone - just thought you might like to see a few pictures of my rook rifle converted to 410. I know there are loads about but this one is a bit special to me as it has Perrins of Worcester on the rib. It is the only 410 or rook rifle we have come across in the Perrins Owners club so it fills a gap in our records. It has a very tight choke - points and kills very well and is a delight to shoot. While one is always concerned about converting a gun at least it keeps it working and not just hung on a wall. It is in pretty good nick and as you see a nice piece of wood with horn on the forend and on the grip. It has a rudimentary ejector which works some of the time.
Anyone interested in seeing some more Perrins guns go to http://www.perrins-gunmaker-of-worcester.org.uk/
or
http://s763.photobucket.com/albums/xx278/Perrinsshotguns/?start=260 with a password of 12boreshotgun

The primary source for the Rook Rifles of the type seen on the Guns International Web site was; Webley and Scott, Birmingham. These rifles are pictured and described on Page 22 of their July 1st; 1914 wholesale catalogue. I have mint example of this rifle in 297/250 rook engraved, G.Hinton, Gunmaker, Fore Street,Taunton.
Webley and Scott had extensive machine shops and did supply the English tade with actions "in the white" and finished Rook rifles.
Other sources for higher grade hammer rook rifles included W.&C.Scott & Samuel B. Allport both of Birmingham. [In later life Samuel Allport closed down his gun making business to assume the position of Proof master at Birmingham] The actions made by Allport and W.&C. Scott are found on rifles made by Boss, Rigby and others.

I have a Stephen Grant in .380 Center Fire Rook built on a miniature Martini Henry action. Really neat caliber because .380 CF is also 38 Long Colt. This little rifle puts round after round into an inch and a half cluster at 50 yards. My eyes open the groups up to about three inches at 100. It is a really neat, and with its 26 inch barrel, remarkably quiet crow wacker from the back deck.