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Help needed with screw thread size. #197497 07/29/10 03:47 AM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 625 Likes: 1 England. Harry Eales OP Sidelock
OP Harry Eales Sidelock Joined: May 2006 Posts: 625 Likes: 1 England.	An American Email friend of mine has been fortunate enough to obtain a Westley Richards 1881 Deeley & Edge Long Range Target Rifle in .450 No.2 Musket Calibre. Unfortunately it is in need of a little restoration in the way of replacement screws in the action. Does anyone know what threads were used by Westley Richards in that time period? Were they an English standard or a specific W-R made thread? The screw in question is close to the U.S. 8x32 but about 0.010" larger and a 10x32 is too large. If anyone knows the correct size, (which will certainly be an English spec. thread rather than a US 'Unifed' thread), I may be able to supply the correct taps and dies to help my friend out. Better to restore the parts to their correct threading than use a none standard replacement. Harry Last edited by Harry Eales; 07/29/10 03:57 AM. Biology is the only science where multiplication can be achieved by division.

Re: Help needed with screw thread size. Harry Eales #197501 07/29/10 07:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 72 Minneapolis Jim Westberg Sidelock
Jim Westberg Sidelock Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 72 Minneapolis	Harry, Like you I think replacing screws with the original thread pattern is important to a proper restoration/repair. Here is an option. Locate a supply of "engravers acid" used in the commercial trade primarily to take off background in coin dies and similar work. The acid I have been using will dissolve a common iron finishing nail (diam .060") in about 4 minutes! Recently made a bridal screw for a Purdey hammer gun using this acid. Like your issue, the threads were 40 TPI but the diameter was about .010" smaller than our standard 4-40 screw. By immersing the screw shank in the acid with a forceps and measuring the erroded screw a few times it worked perfectly. Also, the acid is useful for fitting small hardened pins/parts otherwise difficult to chuck up for grinding or machining. Sadly, I bought the acid about 15 years ago from an chemical supplier on the US east coast and it is nearly gone now. The label on the bottle has long since disappeared and I can not find a new supply. This acid is light sky blue in color which no suppliers seem to have. Jim Westberg

Re: Help needed with screw thread size. Jim Westberg #197503 07/29/10 07:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 7,315 Likes: 619 Colorado SKB Sidelock
SKB Sidelock Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 7,315 Likes: 619 Colorado	in my experience the Brits were using BA standards by that time. I am away from my chart at the moment but can look it up once I am in the shop this morning. Taps and dies are available here state side, just bloody expensive. Firearms imports, consignments

Re: Help needed with screw thread size. SKB #197507 07/29/10 08:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 7,315 Likes: 619 Colorado SKB Sidelock
SKB Sidelock Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 7,315 Likes: 619 Colorado	Sounds like a #2 BA BA Outer Diameter Threads per inch Threads per mm Tap drill 0 0.2362 in / 6 mm 25.38 1 5.1 mm / 7 gauge 1 0.2087 in / 5.3 mm 28.25 1.112 4.5 mm / 16 gauge 2 0.1850 in / 4.7 mm 31.35 1.234 4.0 mm / 21 gauge 3 0.1614 in / 4.1 mm 34.84 1.372 3.4 mm 4 0.1417 in / 3.6 mm 38.46 1.514 3.0 mm 5 0.1260 in / 3.2 mm 43.10 1.697 2.65 mm / 37 gauge 6 0.1102 in / 2.8 mm 47.85 1.884 2.3 mm 7 0.0984 in / 2.5 mm 52.91 2.083 2.05 mm / 46 gauge 8 0.0866 in / 2.2 mm 59.17 2.330 1.8 mm 9 0.0748 in / 1.9 mm 64.94 2.557 1.55 mm 10 0.0669 in / 1.7 mm 72.46 2.853 1.4 mm / 54 gauge 11 0.0591 in / 1.5 mm 81.97 3.227 1.2 mm 12 0.0511 in / 1.3 mm 90.91 3.579 1.05 mm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Association_screw_threads Last edited by SKB; 07/29/10 08:03 AM. Firearms imports, consignments

Re: Help needed with screw thread size. Jim Westberg #197512 07/29/10 08:34 AM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 625 Likes: 1 England. Harry Eales OP Sidelock
OP Harry Eales Sidelock Joined: May 2006 Posts: 625 Likes: 1 England.	Originally Posted By: Jim Westberg Harry, Like you I think replacing screws with the original thread pattern is important to a proper restoration/repair. Here is an option. Locate a supply of "engravers acid" used in the commercial trade primarily to take off background in coin dies and similar work. The acid I have been using will dissolve a common iron finishing nail (diam .060") in about 4 minutes! Recently made a bridal screw for a Purdey hammer gun using this acid. Like your issue, the threads were 40 TPI but the diameter was about .010" smaller than our standard 4-40 screw. By immersing the screw shank in the acid with a forceps and measuring the erroded screw a few times it worked perfectly. Also, the acid is useful for fitting small hardened pins/parts otherwise difficult to chuck up for grinding or machining. Sadly, I bought the acid about 15 years ago from an chemical supplier on the US east coast and it is nearly gone now. The label on the bottle has long since disappeared and I can not find a new supply. This acid is light sky blue in color which no suppliers seem to have. Jim Westberg Jim, I think the screw end is the part that's damaged but it may also be the female thread that the screw goes into. I'll have to check that out with my friend. That's a good tip though, thanks. Harry Last edited by Harry Eales; 07/29/10 12:02 PM. Biology is the only science where multiplication can be achieved by division.

Re: Help needed with screw thread size. SKB #197513 07/29/10 08:44 AM
Joined: May 2006 Posts: 625 Likes: 1 England. Harry Eales OP Sidelock
OP Harry Eales Sidelock Joined: May 2006 Posts: 625 Likes: 1 England.	Originally Posted By: SKB Sounds like a #2 BA BA Outer Diameter Threads per inch Threads per mm Tap drill 0 0.2362 in / 6 mm 25.38 1 5.1 mm / 7 gauge 1 0.2087 in / 5.3 mm 28.25 1.112 4.5 mm / 16 gauge 2 0.1850 in / 4.7 mm 31.35 1.234 4.0 mm / 21 gauge 3 0.1614 in / 4.1 mm 34.84 1.372 3.4 mm 4 0.1417 in / 3.6 mm 38.46 1.514 3.0 mm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Association_screw_threads Hello SKB, Many thanks, I'll check it out. If it is a British Association size thread, then it won't be a problem for me to supply the necessary taps and dies. I have most BA sizes anyway. They're still available here in the U/K and commonly used by model engineers so the prices are pretty low compared to the USA. I've also found the reverse to be true with Unified Taps and Dies. Many thanks, the info is much appreciated. UPDATE. The thread has been identified as No.2 BA. Thanks to all for helping. Harry Last edited by Harry Eales; 07/29/10 02:11 PM. Biology is the only science where multiplication can be achieved by division.

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