doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com "custom gun" vs restock/refinish

I hear people use the different phrases in situations that make me think there is a lot of overlap--and yet I have also seen general statements that the two are not the same. Being somewhat confused by the nomenclature I am curious to hear especially from those in the trade at what point a restock/refinish becomes a custom gun?
Thanks

Edit--I am speaking of the definitions, not seeking advice

David;

If the gun is refinished to the original condition...without alteration...it is not custom. That being said, any alteration to meet the need of the owner, brings the word to customization of the gun. The increase in monetary value is not a factor.

Useing upgraded wood, non standard engraving, metal sculpting, or fancy checkering all bring the project to the CUSTOM level. Leaving the gun in the orginal condition with new wood and refinished metalwork constitutes a restoration project. Just my thoughts. Many may disagree.

David;
I think personally that is a most excellent description.
I would add one thing, though not so much a statement but a further question. As we know many of the makers of the better grades of doubles did in fact make guns to order as regards stock dimensions at no additional charge in the beginning, some later when faced with declining sales & lower profits were forced to add a small fee. Would this be considered a "Custom Gun". In my opinion this did not really put it in a custom class. Thus if a gun is re-stocked with virtually all else as near as possible to original except basic dimensions as to LOP & Drop I would still classify it as a re-stock, not Custom as all guns of that make & grade would not have had identical dimensions.

As Miller says, a restock/refinish work can be made with your own measures, so while being faithful to the gun´s standards it can suit better your shooting needs.

By the time you finish either a restock or a refinish job you will have enough time and money to make a decent custom gun. Figure fifty or a hundred hours of effort or a like amount of money for a complete restock and metal refinish. For that much money or time you better make it suit your needs a much as you can. Engraving is beyond all but one or two who post here but many here can finish a stock, prep metal or make a sows ear into a silk purse.

I think too many get caught up in this factory original condition. The guns we restock and refinish are no more factory original than a Ford with 200,000 mile on the odometer or a rust out Ford coupe. If it is fair to make a old car into a street rod it should be fair to make a well worn field gun into a fine looking tool for our enjoyment. Maskers made field grade guns because there was never enough demand for higher grade guns. They made them plain because they wanted the extra sales not because plain has even been that great to look at or shoot.

Very well put Jon.

Regards, Gordon

I see the term, Custom Gun all the time. I feel it is generally a misused term. The local Nosler gun shop is called a "custom" shop. They have made some nice rifles they call "custom". I disagree with the term. They are not made with customer input, simply nicely made rifles in a custom Nosler caliber.

To me, a custom gun has owner input. Certainly his stock dimensions are needed. This is not so important with rifles where one size fits 85%, but it is critical with shotguns. Wonko's cut and recut stocks with nekked ladies and head shot happy faces may not be artist's delights (except in Frisco), but they are most definitely a custom gun, made with insight and shooting experience. One can add choice of wood and engraving, sights on rifles, fluted barrels for lightweight rifle preferences, ad infinitum.

For me, calling a gun "custom" simply because it may be a bit fancier than others is a misuse of the term. Custom (Websters) "Made or according to one's personal order."

From 'Wiki':
"Bespoke is a British English term employed in a variety of applications to mean an item custom-made to the buyer's specification. While applied to many items now, from computer software to luxury car appointments, the term historically was only applied to tailored clothing, shirts and other parts of men's apparel involving measurement and fitting."

If you order an item such as a shotgun completely to your wants and specifications and it is built from the ground up for you, today its termed bespoke. It may also be termed custom but usually as Pete indicated the term custom is misused.
If your gun is a refinished, restocked to your specfications, it could be termed custom but not bespoke. If a standard factory model to you stock dimensions it is not bespoke but could be looseley be called custom.
All else is neither bespoke nor custom.-Dick

WE might also discuss the term "customized" which certainly applies to modified stocks to a customer's desire.

A manufacturer may use the term "custom" to describe a product as a sales gimmick, but that does not mean it is a correct useage...simply a possibly good sales gimmick.

Same misuse of the term for houses. Custom implies just that, built specifically to the individual wants,need and tastes of the person who commissions the work. Big, expensive or speculative whether guns, suits or anything else does not make it custom.
I do like to customize my mass market stuff to suit my needs better, sometimes I make it worse.