doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com stain, solar lux , aniline dye, etc questions

I hate staining wood. There, I said it. I find it to be the most difficult aspect of finishing and all too often it simply looks like stained wood, I dislike the colors that look like they didn't grow there or belong on a tropical hardwood, and the results I have achieved so far have been less than stellar in comparison to simply getting a blank with color I like from the start.

So, the genesis of this is that I am stocking a gun for a friend with a piece of turkish walnut that he has had for a few years purchased from a well known wood dealer...nice and dense, good straight grain in the wrist that went all smoky and wavy into the butt, and this gorgeous rich "light-molasses" color not unlike my favorite IPA.
In prep for sending this off to the duplicator, I cut a piece off the butt of the blank to have on hand to plug the hollow butt later on...and discovered that the wood underneath (both sides and the edges were finished and the ends were waxed) was much lighter colored than I expected. I took some of the finish off the scrap, rubbed on a fresh coat of finish and lo and behold the rich brown color was GONE, to be replaced with a nice enough but rather plain looking tan color sort of like what I'd expect from the stereotypical california wood--nice enough, but not what my friend was after.

So, I am playing with some stains on the scrap to see what I can concoct.

First, is there a finish that someone might have used that would have given this color in only a few years? It appeared to be some sort of urethane finish (it's quite built up and I can't imagine anyone putting enough time into an oil finish on a square blank to build up BLO or the like), but the color was much darker than the wood underneath. It seems kind of shady to sell blanks that are stained to look different than they really are--is it likely to be just a darkened finish or amber coloring from a spar varnish or something on a 10 year old blank?

Assuming I will need to stain it to achieve the color he wanted:
I've tried minwax stains, and have never found an application technique for this stuff that I like, it seems to really muddy the wood and cause it to lose depth, color unevenly even when sealed, etc--anyone that uses this, how do you apply it, when, and what is the resulting look?

After going back and reading the alkanet root thread from a few years ago, I purchased some solar lux blood red and tried it both on unfinished and pore-filled wood. I love the way it evenly colors, but the color itself is kind of shockingly red or even pink...especially on the unfinished wood it looks unnatural to me and it's not at all what I'm after. I've read SDH's book where he says he applies on pore-filled wood and topcoats over it, and from my very limited experiment tonight that appears to be the way to do it and it looks ok but not really "wow". I'm very interested in any tips or techniques other folks have found for this stuff--what % do you mix it with the solvent, do you mix colors at all (which colors and how much?), when do you apply this during the finishing process, etc.

Last, I tried some of the good-old birchwood casey water-based stain from china mart. It does raise the grain which is kind of a drag but so far this is the best color I have found, although I would prefer just a hint more reddish tone. Is there a solar lux color (or similar) that others use that has a color like I'm after?

Thanks for any thoughts or feedback.
Dave

Try the alcohol based aniline dyes. They aren't as likely to give you a muddied up wood. Since you seem to want to buy pre mixed stuff, Laurel Mountain Forge has a line of these dyes in small cans. I haven't used them on Walnut, but I do use them on hard curly sugar maple for longrifles. The good part is you can layer them repeatedly with different colors until you get the color that suits your taste. Since you want some reddish tones apparently, start with the Nut Brown color and some red tone to go with it. Nut brown may just do it though.

I too prefer not to use stains, but also use alcohol base aniline stains when necessary. Any oil based stain that has an inch of sludge/pigment in the bottom of the can before mixing will muddy up the grain some. I have read that the water based stains will fade from UV light exposure.

I think you are smart to try stains or finishes on a scrap of your wood before you commit yourself. A couple years ago, I did a little experiment where I planed some black walnut and cut pieces which I glued together with various glues to see what gave me the most invisible glue joint for repairs. Going further, I applied as many different "clear" finishes as I had on hand on my glued-up samples to see if they affected visibility of the glued joint. I used Linspeed, Tru-Oil, Tung oil, spar varnish, Deft, Permalyn, Polyurethane, Watco Danish Oil, Waterlox, and several others. I was amazed at the different results the various finishes gave on the same wood.

Hello Dave,

Couldn't agree more: I too hate staining wood. It's hard for me to get it on evenly
and hard to get the colour I want.

Also agree with Jerry in that I mix different stains from the limited assortment
I have at hand. The "Blood Red" I find, as you say "shockingly red or even pink".
I have used Minwax Wood Finish Red Mahogany that has a nice reddish hue and
also the Special Walnut. Also have mixed water based stains found locally in
powder form that I mix with water and some alcohol. One of them is called
"Caoba"-Mahogany that is reddish and another called "Nogal"-Walnut that is
brownish. They do raise the grain some but give nice colours.

And as Keith says, different finishes bring out the natural colour of the wood
in different ways. Plain old BLO really enhances the contrast and has given
some old stocks very nice natural colour. Here is another field for experiments.

Last, I should mention that I am an amateur only.

JMTC

Best,

JC

I use button lac to get the caramel color that is favored on K - guns and garnet shellac on those wanting the antique red - brown. Both are shellac's and can be washed off if you don't like them. Clear coat or poly over them will make them very durable.
bill

I have no idea what it would look like on walnut, but have achieved some beatuiful results on Curly Maple with the old mission furniture technique of fuming with strong ammonia. This was originally applied on Oak which contained tannic acid. For other woods you simply brew a strong tea solution & use for raising the grain. After this place in a covered container & set an open dish/bowl/whatever of strong ammonia in with it. leave overnight or until it takes on the desired color.

2 piper, it makes walnut black in my experience.

General guidelines for all stains: Dye stains will fade with exposure to sunlight, regardless of the solvent used to dilute them, but will not obscure the grain and figure much. Pigment stains (those with sludge in the bottom of the can) will not fade nearly as much nor as quickly as the dye stains, but will muddy the grain slightly. It's a tradeoff.

And when you finally get just that perfect artificial color that's only skin deep....what happens when you checker it?

You get the checkering dude to leave it unfinished and give it the same treatment I assume?

Maybe I'll try some garnet shellac too. Will most oil-modified urethanes adhere over this?

Also, on the dye's fading...I know some have used the behlens solar lux dyes for a while, anyone have any experience with these fading? Purportedly they are "fade-resistant"...??