doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Idaho lead shot ban

Why does nobody ever mention that if lead shot deposition was a problem for wildlife anywhere it would be at and around skeet and trap ranges. Undoubtedly it accumulates in exponentially higher concentrations there than anywhere else on this planet. If lead shot really is a threat, why hasn't there been a nationwide ban on lead by the USFWS at target ranges?

Well USFWS would have to have a study showing that interstate birds or fish or elk are eating the shot at that gun club and are being harmed by it. They would have to get a law giving them authority to close those gun clubs down because of the shot.

Just think, every few years Gene Sears comes to our Gun Club and harvests that spent lead shot and pays us for the privilige. If the anti-leaders get their way it will become a toxic superfund site and they will pay Gene Sears to come in and clean it up!


Best,

Mike

The answer may be that risk is related to exposure. I lived in a salt environment in a fishing village all my early life; every shed filled with it by the ton. Our hands were in hard salt for hours on end salting down herring, mackerel, cod, pollack and hake in puncheons and later again in barrels. . We were drenched in salt water at sea. Risk probably related more to what we ate. Maybe it's the same at the range.

Hey Birdawg:

A fairly common survey technique is to ask a question, get the first answer... then add some more information, and then ask the same or a very similar question again and see if the first answer changes.

Politicians and marketers use the survey technique all the time.

It is a method of determining what type or amount of information is compelling enough to change opinions, and to what extent public opinion on a topic is "soft" and can be influenced by education, advertising, or propaganda.

There was quite a bit of ground on the topic of continued lead shot use in upland bird hunting covered on the Montana thread. I'm sure all the participants in it would have varying opinions of what content was educational, propaganda, or just horse feathers.

I for one take the topic pretty seriously, and if you need any additional information offline, just let me know. I'm not going to be around a computer much, but will check back.

Here is some Hard data: Just yesterday in Southwest Nebraska, SEVEN geese were picked up that were killed by STEEL shot. This in an area of less than 1/2 acre. Mr. Obama, when posed with the non tox controversy (private session-not on cspan) was quoted as saying."If nontox becomes an issue to working class shooters, Cartidges will be provided at Government expense. This would take place at the same time as money becomes available to small business in Rural America". While all of these redundant discussions are vaguely interesting, you all would be better served by making your feelings known to the agencies pushing these issues, and to the departments of commerce in the states affected. Perhaps a concerted effort by all of us to have a real study done by an independent agency? Oh! I forgot, there arent any...

I doubt it, too. Maybe because we don't have gizzards that retain indigestable objects for an extended period of time. I'm extremely skeptical of most of these studies also, but your comparison isn't valid, Jim. Shot doesn't stay in our digestive tract long enough to harm us.

A better question, IMO, is: How about all the people who have been shot with lead shot early in their lives and they were never removed? These people ever shown signs of lead poisoning?

"So applying your rule--"
Mike, I have no rule. Just saying what many of the studies have shown.
"Are you saying there should be zero tolerance of lead shot in waterfowl waters?"
That seems to be what the various studies are saying. And they are not my studies, they are done by many conservation orgs.. Read the studies and ask the folks that do them the questions.

"A better question, IMO, is: How about all the people who have been shot with lead shot early in their lives and they were never removed? These people ever shown signs of lead poisoning?"

In some cases , yes they do .

oldman so in your opinion a single death of a waterfowl by lead shot ingestion is unacceptable? No matter how much it costs to prevent that one goose or duck or snipe from die from lead shot ingestion? How many died as the result of a collison with a power line? How many died as a result of humans hunting them? How many were ambushed by coyotes while ground feeding?

And I still have about 30 pellets of #6s in me from a 1980 pheasant hunt. I have been advised by MDs that they are not a problem.



What study showed how many waterfowl died last year as a result of upland shot ingestion? Yet you seem to believe if it is any it is too many. Is a single goose death from upland shot acceptable?

Best,

Mike

"oldman so in your opinion a single death of a waterfowl by lead shot ingestion is unacceptable? No matter how much it costs to prevent that one goose or duck or snipe from die from lead shot ingestion?"
I'm not going to get into a discussion on extrems . The above is something a child would try to use to get his way .
Give your thoughts to the various Fish and Wildlife biologists , they are the ones that will set the rules .