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Question on primers here. I'm loading light 7/8 oz. 12 gauge loads. Currently using S1000 with W-209 primers. I've gotten different opinions on the different primers relating to pressures. Are there big differences between the primers? The Accurate loading guide just mentions Win/Rem/Cheddite whereas I've got other guides that do specify a particular primer.
Thanks again, Robert Krull

Primers can make a real big difference in pressure. When in doubt contact the powder makers for guidance. Do not sub one primer for another if you are concerned about pressure levels.

Here's an interesting bunch of data from Tom Armbrust:

http://www.armbrust.acf2.org/primersubs.htm

Thanks. I knew there had to be a difference but didn't realize it could be that great. Some very interesting and eye opening data there. I stay under 7000 psi as most of the doubles I shoot are either old, lightweight or both. 7/8 oz at 1200 fps and under 7000 psi makes me and the guns happy.
Robert

I have found that most of the primers are pretty much the same. Especially the Winchester and the Remingtons. The Fiocchi is about the same as the Wins and the Rems, but they do permanently enlarge the holes of your hulls. Looking down the list of my Hogden manual at 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. loads, I don't see much difference between any of the pressures regardless of what kind of primer is used. And even loads with the fastest velocities still only takes the pressure up to less than 12,000 PSI of pressure, which is well under putting any modern day gun in any danger of damage. You would have to have pressures around twice that much to damage a gun made today. I have used and interchanged almost all of them in the past and have had absolutely no problems in my modern day made guns. But you should still check with your manuals to be sure. Even though I never do. Good luck.

As far as the article by Tom Armbrust, most trap shooter's guns are quite a bit heavier than other guns, so he probably wouldn't notice the difference in recoil when changing primers. (In fact one of my trap guns is a 686 (single barrel) that he mentions and I wouldn't notice the difference in a primer change from the recoil). And not very many trap shooters who reload, would do something to change the velocity of their loads by 200 feet per second without adjusting the formula to compensate for such a change. Nor would they enter a shoot without trying the load out first. Especially if they were going to spend money on the shoot. So, most trap and skeet shooters at my club, who reload, just use the primers that they can get and some just buy the ones that are the most economical and never think about the other stuff that much. I try to keep mine pretty much the same. But primers were never that much of a big deal to me when I reload. Just my opinion.

"I have found that most of the primers are pretty much the same"

"So, most trap and skeet shooters at my club, who reload, just use the primers that they can get and some just buy the ones that are the most economical and never think about the other stuff that much."

Are you kidding?

I brought this subject up after sporting clays this morning at the club. Some interesting comments. Some said whatever primer was on sale is what they used, several said they followed the powder maker's recipe to the "T" and another said he used Winchester primers exclusively. No trap shooters were present which was unfortunate. But from all this I think I will just stay with whatever the recipe calls for.
Most of my doubles are old so I don't think I'll take any chances.
But, speaking of pressures. Does anybody have any info on black powder pressures? I've got a bunch of paper hulls that are just begging for some nice black powder loads.
Robert

If you go the Hodgden website and search their data using Win AA hulls, Clays powder and Remington 209P primers you will find a 1oz load at approx 6500psi. Primers make a definite difference pressure wise.

I wasn't comparing 1 oz. loads against 1 1/8 oz. loads. I was comparing all of the 1 oz. loads against each other and all of the 1 1/8 oz. loads against each other. NOW go down the list of each and compare them and you won't see that much difference when you have a primer change. I would be willing to bet that if I loaded a decent trap gun with the exact components and changed only the primers, most people would never notice the difference. Especially from a Winchester to a Remington. Most people at my club change from a Winchester to a Remington and think nothing about it. Or from one of those to the (very economical) Fiocchi, and don't even think about it. (The only bad thing about the Fiocchi is that they enlarge the primer holes because they are larger in diameter). And how many pounds of pressure did it take the guy in the DGJ to blow up a gun in his articles? Wasn't it 24-25,000 PSI? Wasn't that with a damascus shotgun? So, look at the reloading books and see what the highest pressures are. 10-11,000 PSI? You should be pretty safe in a modern day gun with those pressures. Now if you are reloading for an older gun or a damascus shotgun, then I would be more careful in keeping the pressures down.