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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 14 |
Hi : I have recently acquired a CHARLES DALY SIDE LOCK DRILLING MADE BY J. P. SAUER AND SON. Cal. 12 x 12 x 30-30. 28" Steel bbls are engraved "J. P. Sauer & Son Suhl" on tops of both bbls. Broad flat matted rib is stamped "Fluid - Steel - Krupp - Essen-" w/ folding rear and longitudinally dovetailed bead front sights. Minimally scroll engraved case hardened action has dual under lugs, Greener cross bolt, bushed shotgun strikers, and pin rifle cocking indicator. Rifle is cocked w/ thumb actuated side lever, along side of trigger guard. Back action locks have some scroll, are engraved "Charles Daly" and have raised rib cocking indicators on tumbler ends. Bottom of rounded action has "D. R. P. no. 78411" engraved on trigger plate. Trigger guard has some scroll and SN on grip. Top tang has "Safe" engraved in front of bifurcated sliding safety button w/ flip-up peep sight at rear. Any information on this fine old firearm would be greatly appreciated. [img] http://s810.photobucket.com/albums/zz29/sct_photo/[/img]
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,082 Likes: 379
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,082 Likes: 379 |
Model 24 had a dolls-head extension
Model 25 had a Greener Crossbolt
Model 26 was a Model 25 with engraving and better wood
D.R.P. No. 78411(1893) is the Sauer Blitz/triggerplate design used on the hammer drillings and also sued on the sidecocker drillings. Your example has the blade variety cocking indicators. "181" is the pre-rifling bore diameter usually seen on .303 British and .30-30(also 184,11). Choked left tube and I can't tell on the right. "Prussia" country of origin stamp. Small "Crown" noting extra attention to shooting performance or pattern or bullet groups. Or a possiblity of it being a quality stamp. Serial number may help in narrowing the date.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 14 |
Thanks for that the right barrel has "13/ " which indicate no choke? The serial number is 140900 if you can pinpoint a date that would be great. Also could you recommend any reference material?
Take care
Steve
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,082 Likes: 379
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,082 Likes: 379 |
For choke, there has to be a "Crown" over "W" stamped on the tube. 140xxx is going to be pre-WWI. With the pre-rifling bore stamp which was supposed to have changed to mm in 1910, but of course there are exceptions, and the patent number still stamped on there, I'd guess circa 1908 but it could be later. Up until 1923(I think) German patents were for 15 years so 1893 + 15 would me the patent would expire circa 1909. There are several Sauer books and Mr. Jim Cate of Chattanooga has penned one and it is available from him or from GGCA( http://www.germanguns.com ). Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,448 Likes: 278
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,448 Likes: 278 |
Jeff Stephens wrote Sauer articles for Double Gun Journal, some of which had serial number/date of manufacture charts. The articles are located by using the seven year indexes published by DGJ.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,082 Likes: 379
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,082 Likes: 379 |
DGJ Volume 15, Issue 3(Autumn 2004) at page 88:
1908 - 137,801 to 146,300
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 940 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 940 Likes: 6 |
Steve,
To add a little more to what Raimey and Bill have provided:
As Raimey stated your gun was made in 1908. In the 1907 Schoverling, Daly, and Gales catalog, two models of hammerless drillings ("Three barrel hammerless guns") are offered. I've copied the descriptions below:
No. 107 - 28-inch barrels, 12 or 16 gauge shot and 30-30 or 38-55 rifle, weighing between 7 and 7.75 lbs, fine walnut stock, engraved locks . . . . $150
No. 108 - 28-inch barrels, 12 or 16 gauge shot, and 30-30 or 38-55 rifle, weighing 7.25 - 7.75 lbs. Beautifully engraved locks, sideclips, finest Italian walnut stock, finished in best manner . . . . $200
BTW, the catalog neither mentions, nor shows, sling swivels.
Regards,
Ken
Last edited by Ken Georgi; 11/15/09 10:06 AM.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 14
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 14 |
Many thanks to all that have replied, this has been very helpful. Once again I'm awed by the knowledge the members of this board not only possess but are willing to share.
Take care
Steve
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 112
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 112 |
Cr17...your drilling is patterned after the Sauer Model 24 and as Ken G has noted it is the Daly #150. The Sauer-Daly 12 gauge drillings of this model (which you have) in the U.S. are very generally seen with the 30-30, 38-55 or occasionally in 30 Army (30 Krag). It might be that your Drilling may(?) have been re-stocked at some point in its life, as the wood figure is quite high for a Sauer-Daly and checkering pattern on fore-end is different from what is generally seen on these guns. Regardless, these are neat drillings and sought after by collectors. Production as noted occured approx 1908 or so. Jeff Stephens
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 601
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 601 |
I have a question for you gentlemen too. I have a J P Sauer 12 ga with a possible date code on the barrel flats that says 358 with a serial number 44324X. Does March 1958 sound right for that serial number?
Thanks
Mike
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