doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What was the deal with German chokes?

I just recently aquired a J.P. Suaer boxlock circa 1930, the chokes are full and WOW. I have noticed most northern European makers choked there guns this way. Why? Are they expecting the owners to open them to what they want, are thy necessary for the game shot,was the ammo in that area adversley affected by lower temps. ? Anybody have any specific reason?

I've wondered about it. The only thing my little brain produced is long shots and big, tough old birds---capercaillie on the steep slopes of dark forests.

Much European hunting is not shooting flying but rather taking hares and foxes at relatively long distance. At social hunts (hares are not hunted any other way here) you are required to carry your gun slinged (due to tradition and for safety reasons), and hence the reaction time is slower, and shooting distance longer. -Jani

Any gun from the 30's was made before plastic wads and shot protectors, so a bit tighter choke constriction was necessary to produce the desired pattern.

I recently acquired a german Simson and swedish Husqvarna SxS's, both choked F&F.

I was told it was because hunters there preferred shooting sitting birds, not flyers. I don't know if that is/was true.

I've had each right barrel opened to IC, so they are now IC & Full.

JERRY

King Brown, montenegrin and Jim Legg all provide parts of answer. Another part is that relatively (comparied to modern USA magnums and ultramags with multiple oz of shot) small shot charges were/are used, so nice tight patterns were needed. I leave chokes on my old German and Swedish guns unaltered and find loads that pattern nicely through them -- generally simply 24 and 28 gram loads in one-peice plastic wads. Works great on ducks, geese, pheasants and inquisitive/sleepy foxes or coyotes. Maybe try on turkey next spring, when cannot use rifle.

Shooting big grouse (tjäder) sitting in top of tall trees, requires tight choke. Often they are/were hunted with "bird rifles" -- fågelgevär, usually singleshot, smaller caliber, lower power rifles. Distances easily 50 meters.

Niklas

Thanks Montenegrin.I now know why so many European doubles have sling swivels present,so more than the Brit peices.

yobyllib,

In addition to what Montenegrin wrote,look at pictures of hunting parties in most (nearly all?) of Europe and Scandinavia and you will see all guns on slings over shoulders. Maybe only on stand is gun allowed to be otherwise.

Even in USA, some of us always carry long guns on slings till close to game -- especially over pointing dogs and to and from blinds/stands.

Hunting shotguns without sling swivels and lightweight slings are missing essential items.

Niklas

Sling swivels are also very typical on French guns, and frequently found but less common on Belgian and Italian guns. When I lived in Morocco, most of the French hunters I met, and many of the Moroccans who'd picked up the sport from the French (as opposed to "shooting for the pot") had slings on their shotguns.

I gun slung on your back is not a safer gun....Maybe they were too lazy to tote rheir guns.