doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Francotte 10 gauge and non-toxic loads

I recently purchased a light 10 gauge from the gun room at a Cabela's in Maine on-line. As stated it is a Francotte marked Von Lingerke&Detmold US agents New York SN-32XXX and in looking over the proof marks I believe it was proofed for black powder only. The barrels are marked "Siemens Martin Steel" and it is chambered for 3 inch shells but may have been lenghted from the more common 2-5/8. Does anyone know much about these guns and would you have some pet low pressure loads for them? I have the Sherman Bell articles on finding out for myself from the DGJ but they are a bit confusing.

Also, is there a source for non-toxic shot safe to shoot in these older guns now that bulk bismuth is not available?

Mark: I suspect your gun was built around the turn of the last century and that it has 2 7/8-inch chambers which are original (and more common by that date). Assuming your gun has been okayed by an expert, appropriate low-pressure factory loads can be purchased from several sources often discussed here. Others on this board may also be able to share low-pressure recipes for various applications. I hope you enjoy your new acquisition. You describe it as light ... just what does it weigh? TT

Mark, I inquired about the gun, but it was sold, to you. I thought it was a very interesting gun. I would like to know the serial number so it can be researched at Griffin and Howe. Do you know how to do that? I will check it out for you if you share the number. I have been able to research both of my Francottes through Griffin and Howe. I use the RST ammunition which is quite low pressure and available in shot loads as light as 1 1/8 ounces. You can look at the prices for the RST ammunition on their website rstshells.com . You can't believe how happy I am to know where this gun is. I have several light tens in my shooting arsenal and am always looking for more. Bill Murphy

Congratulations, Mark, on your Francotte 10 bore, Pics?? Bill, You seem like the go to guy with the 10 bores. You've posted a time before on my Francotte, but I come up with zip on locating a DOM with the G&H references. Any other thoughts? Here's the details and Pic again. Serial Number is 18572. Weight is exactly 8lbs. Has the not for ball stamp. Is 8 lbs concidered light in your frame of reference? It sure seems lighter than my 10 lb. Brit Ten. I think I remember you have a Lefever? at sub 7 lbs. ?? What Francottes 10's are out there in our group? Pics and details would be nice. On the ammo side, Bill is right on with the RST brand. Their Nice shot works great on geese. For turkeys, I've picked up a full box of Win Super X, 10ga., 2 7/8", 1 1/4oz., #4 shot that I use in the spring. Found the box at gun show. should last my life time. For fun, I use the 10/12 Gold series from GaugeMate. Randy

FWIW in the 10 gauge weight department, I own a Darne 10 gauge that goes 7 pounds 3 ounces and an I Hollis 10 gauge hammer gun that goes 8 pounds 3 ounces. I handled a nice older W.C. Scott hammer gun last weekend that went 9 pounds 11.3 ounces. All three were 2-7/8 inch chambers. I'm guessing that there was as much variation in available 10 gauge loads 125 years ago as there is in 12 gauge loads today.

RMC, you could pick from a couple of categories in the Francotte serial number chart on this site, but the 1890 choice would seem to be the most likely. Look under "Other Useful Information" and "High Grade Shotguns, Dates of Production". For your information, my tens that are original from the factory range from 6 pounds 4 ounces to 13 pounds 8 ounces. All are breechloaders and the lightest and the heaviest are fluid steel.

RSTs for factory. Or just load your own. THe bell data is very good for short 10s.

RMC, are you sure that your 1 1/4 ounce ten gauge loads are Super X? If they are fairly late vintage, they should be X-Pert if they are Western brand. Super X would be 1 5/8 ounce loads, unsuitable for old fragile guns.

Bill, Pretty observant, Ammo is Super X and is 1 5/8oz.[memory lapse again] 2 7/8", #4 shot. At the time I bought the ammo, my only 10bore was a Geo. Bate, 10lb, SXS. One shot a year. When do you think this Super X was manufactured? And when were the last 2 7/8" guns made and by who/whom ?? Why would Winchester put out a 2 7/8" shell when the world was full of early hammer and hammerless short 10's and none on the drawing boards? Randy

Are your shells paper or plastic? If they're plastic I'd say they're early 70's vintage. If paper, then late 60's more than likely. Remington made the last factory run of 2 7/8 10 gauge shells, maybe as late as the very early 80's. All the plastic factory stuff from both Rem and Win that I've seen has been 1 5/8 ounce of #4 shot. I've got a box of plastic case blanks that's in an Expert Upland box but I've never seen hunting loads of this type.


Destry