doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ed Kettner side by side

Hello there. I am new to this forum. I was just given an old shotgun by a neighbor lady whose husband past away. It is a 12 gauge side by side. On top of the left barrel it reads ED KETTNER. Toward the rear of barrel it is stamped KRUPP with a couple of other markings that look to readsch or something similar. The top of the right barrel reads COLN followed by a letter/two other letters I can't make out. Wish I had a magnifying glass. The rear of the right barrel is stamped STAHL. The gun has exposed hammers althouh the right hammer is missing. It has double triggers. The triggerguard is broken and seems not to be made of metal. The gun is extremely finely engraved. Rabbit and moose on right side of receiver, deer and dog on left with vine type engraving everywhere. The work is amazing! All screws are engraved. Walnut stock with cheekpiece and sling swivels. No rust on gun. Bores are very shiney with minimal sporadic pitting. Action is very tight and locks up like a bank vault. No splits in the stock or forend. Actually the gun overall is is great shape but needs a triggerguard and right hammer. Any help or informaion will be greatly appreciated. I am clueless as to what I have. Thank you.

fess:

Pics would be most beneficial, especially of the underside of the tubes near the barrel flats and the barrel flats. Krupp Lauf Stahl, or some variant, is Krupp steel tubes, a German steel maker. The triggerbow is imported buffalo horn. Chambers are more than likely 65mm/67mm(2 1/2") and probably black powder proofed.

I'm sure I've posted this before but here it is again:
Eduard Kettner, Köln(Cologne) & Suhl

In 1884 Franz Otto Julius Kettner, son of Eduard Kettner(1811-1888) founded Eduard Kettner of Köln and a satellite facility in Suhl. Franz Kettner(1808-1873) was a brother to Eduard and had a son named Franz Kettner(1840-1913) and a grandson named Franz Kettner(1875-1963) who along with a greatgrandson named Eduard Franz Kettner(1908-2006) were all master gunsmiths. Apparently 1st cousins Franz Kettner(1840-1913) and Franz Otto Julius Kettner were in business together under Eduard Kettner and probably in the 1890s Franz left. The word on the street is that Eduard Kettner/Franz Otto Julius Kettner leaned heavily toward the firearms merchant side while the mastergunsmith line of Franz Kettner may have made almost every item in their own shops.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thanks a lot for the information. You mentioned the chambers are more than likely 2 1/2 in length. I don't know anything about these but I slipped in a 2 3/4 inch 12 gauge shotgun shell, it chambered perfectly, and closed just fine. Is this gun of any value? I'll try to get my son to post some pictures. Thanks again. Fess

fess

Just remember that a standard 2 3/4 inch shotshell is NOT 2 3/4 inches long untill fired - a loaded 2 3/4 inch shell will fit into a 2 1/2 inch chamber and allow the gun to close with no problems (most loaded 2 3/4 inch 12 gauge shells are just over 2 1/4 inches long when loaded). Firing a 2 3/4 inch shotshell in a 2 1/2 inch chamber may result in greater stress to the gun than you may want to subject it to.

Bill

Thanks Bill. I measured the chamber and it is about 75 millimeters in length.

75mm?

Are you sure?

Not really, but close. I definitely have determined that when a 2 3/4 shotshell is chambered there is about a 1/4 inch or so of open chamber in front of the shell before the forcing cone (ringed area in front of the chambers) starts.

Hello Fess and welcome,

Concerning chamber length, if you somewhat determined that a loaded
2 3/4 shotshell -that measures 2 1/4" when unfired- leaves 1/4 inch
or so of open chamber, then the chambers measure 2 1/2", i.e. 2 1/4
of shell plus 1/4 of free space.

Pictures will help a lot and allow us to see what sounds like a very nice
and interesting double.

JC

Thanks everyone! When my son gets home from work this evening I'll try to persuade him to take and load pictures of this double. "Dad" (myself) has no idea of how to do it. He's the computer wizard.

Nice clarification JC. As a hammergun, the chambers all but had to be 65mm. Of course there are exceptions and anything longer than 65mm would have been stamped either on the extractor or watertable. Then again someone could have extended the chambers into the forcing cone. About how long is it?

I don't know if I mentioned it before but ole Ed was an outfitter or firearms merchant and sourced guns from centers like Liege, Suhl and possibly Weipert as the possiblity exits.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse