doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Clabrough & Johnstone 16ga questions

I recently purchased a 16ga Clabrough & Johnstone and wanted to find out more about it. It looks to be fairly old, it's been hunted but in good shape. How can I tell the age of the gun and what proof marks will tell me the choke? I suspect it's full & full? It says "choke" under each barrel. The left barrel has a "cc" over the word "choke". Also, I see "C16.8", 17/1, two crowns w/ what looks like "BP" above, a diamond w/ "16 O" inside and the number "1326 g" How do I tell if it is proofed for 2 3/4" or 2 1/2" shells? It also says "NICHT FUR KUGEL".

Any help or direction would be appreciated.

Thank you.

According to Carders, Clabrough & Johnston of Birmingham England and San Francisco CA operated from 1872 to 1883.
Steve

Steve, was J.P. Clabrough and Sons a predecessor, sucessor or not related?

Thanks,
Mark

According to Carder (again) Clabrough & Johnston was a partnership between J.P. Clabrough and Sons of Birmingham and Johnston of San Francisco.
Steve

Thanks Steve.

Appears this gun has a mixture of proofs. Part are Birmingham, part are non-English. In the days this gun was built there would be no Metric marks on a Birmingham proofed gun, & "NICHT FUR KUGEL" sounds German. 17/1 would have been the Birmingham mark for a bore which wouild take a .656" Dia plug but not a .662" one. 16.8MM = .661" which sounds like a 16ga bore dia, but have never seen a C in front of a bore marking. The 1,326G would be the wt of the bbls in grams (2.92lbs) but this is also not an English mark.

NICHT FUR KUGEL" is NOT FOR BALL in German.
Some of these marks sound Hungarian, but then it should say "NEM GOLYONAK" instead of NICHT FUR KUGEL. Was Hungarian used in the proof during this period? Perhaps one of our european members can make sense of this.

From what you says is present, I can not find any indication of chamber length. The surest way is with a chamber gauge from Brownells. Though some here recommend using a mechanics ruler.

Pete

Thanks for the info, this is the first time I've used this service & you've all been most helpful!!

AMtrico - the chamber length is a minor issue relative to what ammo you use. Modern experience shows that the actual pressure of the loading is much more important than chamber length. 2 3/4" chambers (original or reamed) DO NOT make an older gun suitable for modern SAAMI standard (USA loads) shells. Also, do not assume that SAAMI factory loads with light shot charges have low pressure. Older guns were designed and made from materials suitable for typical black powder pressures. Such pressures (and lower) are easy to achieve with modern loading components. You do want shells of both low pressure and light shot charges. This is an older gun for sure.

If you desire to shoot it, it will need to be carefully checked by a good double gun smith and it will need correct ammo. Again, knowing chamber length is not sufficient information for sellecting shells. If you get a green light from a smith and want ammo, ask here and there will be plenty of recommendations that will work properly.

Rocketman,
Thanks for the info, I didn't consider the points you brought up. I've been in touch w/ a gunsmith about this gun & I plan to send it to him after the holidays for him to go over.

I'll take your suggestion about the shells depending on his diagnosis. Thanks again.