doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com H&A 16ga SxS - info?

Hello gents,
A friend of mine has inherited a Hopkins and Allen 16ga SxS, serial# 41731.

He describes it thusly:
Barrels have a lovely patina, not Damascus, and little is stamped on the receiver other than the serial# and "Hopkins & Allen, Norwich Conn, USA".
Hammerless, thumb safety, double trigger.

No rust, some pitting in the barrels, otherwise tight as a tiger. Perchance I will use this gun this fall as a grouse and woodcock shooting piece. T'was my great-great-grandfathers gun and has been begifted to me by my father.

I have the general H&A information from the Blue Book, etc, but can't find anything regarding date of manufacture, etc. Can anyone help out?

They are actually a Forehand double. Forehand evolved from Ethan Allen & Co. From 1865 to 1871 it was E. Allen & Co.; from 1871 to 1890 it was Forehand & Wadsworth; and from 1890 to 1902 Forehand Arms Co. After 1902, guns marked "Forehand or "The Forehand" were made by Hopkins & Allen Arms Co.

The "old model" hammer double was a sidelock gun with double underbolts made in 10- or 12-gauge and with Twist or Damascus barrels from 1880 to 1892.

The "new model" hammer double was a box-frame gun bolted by a large dollshead rib extension, and offered in 12- or 16-gauge and with Twist or Damascus barrels.

The hammerless double was also box frame with bolting by a large dollshead rib extension, and offered in grades 0, 1, 2 and 3, in 12- or 16-gauge with Twist or Damascus barrels.

These box frame guns appear to be built on the M. Bye and E.G. Parry Patent No. 490,065 granted Jan. 17, 1893.

My August 1895 Chas. J. Godfrey catalogue offers the Forehand Arms Co. hammerless No. 0 with Twist barrels, list price $50, for $30; and the No. 1 with Damascus barrels, list price $60, for $35.

I saved a Forehand Arms Co. ad from a January 1896 issue of The Sportsmans Review and Bicycle News that shows a very elaborate gun and offers ejector and non-ejector hammerless double guns. I also saved a similar ad from the September 1896 issue of The Amateur Sportsman. I have never seen one of these guns with ejectors.

Volume 15, Issue 3, of The Shotgun Research Newsletter reproduces a 1902 Hopkins & Allen catalogue of their "Forehand" guns. The top-of-the-line hammerless was the AA Grade with a list price of $100 which was elaborately engraved, stocked and checkered. Other grades of the hammerless gun started from $25 with Twist barrels and $30 with Damascus barrels. The hammer models were list priced at $18 with "decarbonized steel" barrels, $19.50 with Twist barrels and $22.50 with Damascus barrels.

Pictures of a high grade Forehand I saved from an auction catalogue --

A little more research, in 1901 H&A was still operating the plant of Forehand Arms Co. in Worcester until their new factory buildings in Norwich were up and running.



By 1902 the operation was moved to the H&A plant in Norwich.





Later they added an 0112 and an 0116 grade with steel barrels and continued to make them up to WW-I.

Thank you for the quick reply. I'm getting a picture of this gun and that might shed some more light on what model it is.

I don't guess there is a handy serialization list anywhere, is there?

Not that I've ever heard of. I think best you can say is between 1902 or a bit later to 1915. It is hot outside, so I'm hiding inside in the a/c!! So, here are a few more pages from a 1908 catalogue --

Thanks, Researcher.

Based on the date range is it safe to say this is probably chambered in 2.5"? And if it's the steel barrels it is theoretically safe to use low pressure RSTs? I'm certainly going to recommend that the owner get it thoroughly checked out, of course.

The 2 9/16 inch shell was the 16-gauge standard in the U.S. until around 1931 when Remington brought out their Model 11 and Sportsman in 16-gauge chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells.



For a while they even offered a special load --

I never knew when they started bringing out the 2 3/4" chamber. Interesting stuff.

And which came first, the Remington Humpback or the Browning Humpback???

I didn't mean to imply that longer 16-gauge shells weren't available in the 40 or 50 years prior to Remington bringing out their autoloaders. In my early ammo catalogues paper 16-gauge shells are available in the standard 2 9/16 inch length and in 2 3/4 inch, 2 7/8 inch and 3 inch. In those days, the factory loaded longer shells didn't pack a heavier payload, but more and better wadding to give a better gas seal.

The Browning A5 built by FN in Belgium got into production in 1903 and the first 10000 units were marketted by SD&G in the U.S. bearing the name Browning Automatic Arms Company. The year 1904 marked the beginning of new restrictive tariffs on foreign products. Facing such punitive rates, John M. Browning negotiated with FN for the rights to manufacture and sell the Auto-5 in the United States. He inked a deal with Remington, and they got their Autoloading Gun (later Model 11) on the market in 1905. After John M. Browning's death in 1926, his sons and nephews established a new company to import and market the Browning guns built by FN, beginning with the A5 and preparing for the Superposed.

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