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What am I doing wrongly?
I have difficulties with the damascus black and white rusting.
I get a lot of blotching when I get to the second or third rusting and the etching solution seems to take away most of the rust. I have diluted the etching solution further to a third of the original strength and will try only a 3-5 sec dip.
I have been following Dr. Gaddy's schedule with LMF for rusting.
What I did was:
1. Prep the metal.
2. Boil in distilled water and detergent, then rinse it thoroughly. I use rubber gloves from now on.
3. Remove old blueing with Brownell's rust and blue remover then rinse.
4. Apply full strenght LMF rusting solution with a clean cotton patch trying to avoid overlapping.
5. Hang the barrels in the bathroom for a couple of hours where I seem to get a nice rust quite evenly. I know that Dr. Gaddy recommended 12-24 hours of rusting, but that seems too long to me.
6. Boil for 5-10 minutes in distilled water then card. I tried to card dry or wet and I don't seem to find any difference. I still get some blotching.
Resume from #4 for three cycles then dip in etching solution for 10secs or so.

I did find out that if the barrels are too close to the bottom of the boiling tank (that sits on two electrical burners) part of the blotching seems to reflect the shape of the burners. I remedied this only partially by resting the barrels on a piece of metal placed inside the tank.


Does it matter if the rinsing is done with cold or warm water? Or the carding dry or wet?
I change the boiling water every two or three cycles as it gets a little dirty.
Any other ideas?

Hi Sliver I have only had one attempt at the black and white so I cannot comment much but what I will say is your rusting times are important a few hours is not enough, like I said I have only had the time for one attempt but had simillar problems to you.

I do all of the preliminary degreasing as you do, only with different detergents etc.

I brown and card for 5 or 6 times or more before I use the FECL4 solution by putting it on with a brush moving up and down the bbls as I leave it on for about 30 seconds.I usually brown and card dry about 2-3 times more . I then do the final Ferric Chloride treatment before adding it to boiling water with a handful of Logwood chips and Ferrous Sulfate ( about 1/4 cup) for 5-7 minutes. Then take fine steel wool and take off the top layer of black excess.

Barrel browner,

How long do you leave the barrels to rust? I say I get a decent layer of rust after two hours in a humid and warm bathroom. It might not be deep enough as I leave them for only a couple of hours, but I am afraid I will cause deeper rust pits with a prolonged exposure. Before I hang the barrels in the bathroom I let the hot water shower on so that I have plenty of humidity and the heat on, for 75-80 F.


Stallones,

So you boil only once at the end, for a black and white pattern?
Is your etching solution full strength as it comes out of the bottle?
I have some logwood powder that I boiled the barrels once after a few applications. I used two-three tablespoons in a gallon of water and it seemed too strong a solution. I let the barrels soak in for 5-6 minutes and it came out blotchy. When I lifted the barrels after a minute or two in this solution they seemed evenly coloured. I am planning to put less logwood powder as it may be stronger than the whole pieces of wood and boil the barrels for less time, maybe 1-2 minutes. I did not use the Ferrous Sulfate in the logwood bath, maybe I should.

sliver I see you are speeding up the process by putting the shower on perhaps you do not need to rust for so long if you are doing that, I vary my rusting times depending on what the weathers doing, I think Stallones right about the logwood I did not use any on my attempt but would guess a small amount would be plenty, black and white is something I keen to do no one does it over here but it looks so good.

My rusting takes 4 to 6 days total wtih about 8 hours or more between coats and carding.. My FECL4 etching solution is about 10% and I typically etch after about 5-6 coats and boil in water only. Then I usually brown and card 4-5 times more, etch again and boil in Logwood and Ferrous Sulfate. My Logwood are chips and not powder.

Ferrous Sulfate(Copperous) seems to cause the extra Black residue to come off easier.

Thanks,

I'll let you know.

Sliver -

I have had fairly consistent results using Laurel Mountain Forge Barrel Browner and Degreaser (LLF). Prior to his death, I had corresponded with Dr. Gaddy, and he gave me some tips on correcting some steps I wasn't doing just right.The following is a recap of the steps I use in browning or blacking Damascus barrels:

William Brockway’s adaptation of Dr Gaddy's technique

As posted in DoubleGunBBS

"1 - Polish the barrels to 400 grit or finer (400 is usually enough). If you have tested the barrels for pattern, using acid, this area will have to be polished bright again, before proceeding.

2 - Apply a diluted solution of Laurel Mountain Forge Browner and Degreaser (see below).

3 - Hang barrels in a warm, humid location until a coating of rust forms (may take 4 hours to overnight, depending on ambient temperature and humidity). I use a steam box, powered by a percolator bottom (for the water vapor), and a light bulb (for the heat).

4 - Dip rusted barrels in a 15% solution of Radio Shack circuit board etchant and water (I keep a capped piece of 3" PVC pipe as a dipping tank). Dip for no longer than 5 seconds (important)! That's 15% RS etchant (a solution of Ferric Chloride and water) and 85% water. I am lucky enough to live where the tap water is almost chemically pure. It may be necessary for people in other parts of the country to use distilled water.

5 - Immediately after dipping, flush barrels clean with a garden hose and lots of water. I do this outside my shop in the yard. It is important to stop the etchant from working any longer than 5 or 10 seconds.

6. - Card (scrub down barrels) with medium steel wool under water. This will make the pattern begin to appear.

7 - Repeat steps 2 through 6 until the barrels are dark enough to suit you. This may take a lot of passes, maybe as many as 8 or 10.

In step 2, dilute the LMF with 2 parts water for the 1st pass only. The next couple of passes can be 5 parts water to 1 part LMF. After that, the remaining passes can be 8 - 10 parts water to 1 part LMF. I no longer use the browner diluted any more than this. The dip in Radio Shack etchant serves to remove the rust from the white striations without affecting the brown striations.

If you prefer a black and white finish, boil the barrels for 5 minutes after step 6, each pass. Dr. Gaddy also used a logwood solution dip on his black-and-white barrels, which I haven't tried, yet. Logwood is a stain used by trappers to darken steel traps."

Mr. Brockway,

Thank you for your input. In fact I found your instructions and used them as an easier schedule to follow on this process. I put another coat of rust last night and I have hopes to even out the "blueing" with more coats. I must have been inpatient , like always.