doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shipping Pre-1896 Gun importation?

I know some variations of this question have been covered in the past, but I can't find a definite answer to my question.

Background: I am in New Zealand studying for the semester. Doubles here are VERY cheap, and I found one I would like to bring home with me. It is an older EM Reilly, I believe it is pre 1896. Before I buy it, I want to make sure I can get it home. What is the protocol? Can I ship it to my home address or to my FFL?

I have tried to call the ATF, but the wait is long and it gets expensive calling internationally...

Any info or advice is appreciated.

Ah, so you did end getting o/s. You should get some excellent hunting and shooting over there; quite a lot of Asutralians go over there for hunting trips.
RG

Yep! Have already been on one tahr hunt, that was a success. Did some long range shooting last weekend and am going fallow deer hunting next weekend. Life is good.

Storm, you might get some help from the US Embassy if there is one near wherever you are in NZ. The import question won't revolve aroud the Gun Control Act 1898 definition. You will need a licensed importer and an import permit, I think. I have no idea what you need to get it OUT of NZ. I don't think you can bring it back into the US yourself...Geo

Griffen and Howe--http://www.griffinhowe.com/

They routinely import guns into the US and ought to be able to help via email. You should not need a permit from the ATF as the gun is classified as an antique, if it was really made before 1898. You'll still have to clear US Customs, though.

But G&H will know what to do, I think.

Best of luck,

Quailnut

I think you can carry it in your luggage as an antique. You will need to confirm the airline will accept it (confirm airport protocol for tha airline and NZ), check on export from NZ, and have sufficient documentation to prove its date of manufacture. Customs should ask only to confirm your documentation against the serial.

Call Andy at shooters supplies, tell him I sent you. Some paperwork is required to get it out of NZ. Getting it into the US is easy if you can prove it is pre-1898.
Steve

if you need more help email me....I bring guns in from down under pretty regularly.
Steve

Pre-1896 is the UK equivilent to our GCA 1968 pre 1898. I believe the reason the UK uses 1896 is that was the year Nitro-proof became optional. Lacking the words NitroProof indicate the gun is "most likely" pre-1896 and good enough for them. (UK folks can clarify)
Nigel Brown's Birmingham book has a paragraph on 1896 with markings.
I have brought back pre-1896 guns from the UK in my checked bags. The documentation that I provided customs, per gun, was:

1.) Bill of sale with gun description, SN and appx date of manufacture.

2.) A copy any pages from a published references supporting the claim of pre-1896.

The bill of sale is easy and make a copy for each gun.

Published references:
Either of Nigel Browns books or Boothroyds book are what I use.
You have several solid ways to ID the age of a British made gun:

1.) Date of manufacture list of serial numbers from an accepted reference book.

2.) Makers address from the rib. Since the makers moved around the address ties the gun to a certain date range.

3.) The Makers name. The name of some makers, say Joseph Lang, then Joseph Lang and Sons are specific to a date range.

4.) A last resort, look for patent numbers. British patents are protected for 14 years. You can look up the patent in Nigel's Birmingham book. If it was an 1874 patent and it is marked, then the gun wouldn't carry that mark after 1888. Copy the patent page.

I always put a copy of everything I could find with my paperwork. I put one copy in the gun case and kept one copy with me in my carry-on.

When arriving in the US, you have to declare the guns on your import statement. I always put x antique shotguns. Antiques are not taxed, so you should not pay any duty.

The worst you have to do is open your gun case and compare the supporting documentation with the actual guns.

If you need help ID-ing, post the makers exact name, address, SN, any patent numbers, and a photo or good description of the proof marks.

Sleeved guns often have their original proof marks still on the flats, so check for multiple proof marks to find the oldest.

Joe

My first post addressed the documentation to show Customs when you arrive in the US. You will have to check with a NZ dealer to find out their rules on how to get the gun to the airport.
In the UK, my dealer escorted "his" guns to the airport. I do not have a UK shotgun certificate, so I could not take ownership in the UK or transport the guns to the airport.
My dealer transferred the guns to the airport agent to be screened and placed on my flight. I actually never touched the guns enroute until I was back in the US and getting them off the luggage carousel.

If it is just one antique gun and you have good documentation, I cannot see why shipping it to yourself or maybe your parents with a good tracking number isn't the easiest way.

Joe

Joe