doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Krieghoff SxS Question

I'm trying to find some information (age, history, value) about a shotgun I saw at a pawn shop last week. It is a 16 ga. SxS with external hammers and damascus barrels. The rib is marked Sempert & Krieghoff, Suhl. The water table has the following stamps: S, W and U under a crown, 16/1, 16 in a circle, a bird surrounded with feathers (this looked more like the Austrian one that the German one in the back of the Blue Book) and the number 3828. The bores look good with a small amount of pitting. The receiver and the rear of the barrels have engraving. There is a silver inlay around the rear of the barrels and some on the receiver. All blueing is gone on the receiver, some is remaining on the barrels. The wood is in good shape with no cracks but someone has put a coat of varnish on it. Price was $899. I've stayed away from damascus barrels since I shoot my SXS hammer guns (28, 20, 16, & 12 ga) regularly but this one got my attention. All I've been able to determine is that it is pre-WW II. I would appreciate any information about it. Thanks.

You do not mention a Crown/N or word Nitro. Sounds to me very much as if this may be a pre 1912 gun. I seem to recall that Nitro Proof became compulsory in that year.

I am certainly no expert but my Sempert Krieghoff has the manufacture date on the barrel flats. It is marked like this 3/28 (March 1928). Maybe this gun has a mark like that. I have no idea of value but I know I paid a good bit more than that for mine. You might want to check The German Gun Collctors Ass.
Sweep

Thanks for the replies. I searched all over it and couldn't find any other markings. I plan to go look at it again next weekend. It's over 100 miles away. I'm hoping to get enough info to decide wheter to buy it or not.

If you get me a photo I will drop Dieter Krieghoff an email to get his take on it. They are in Germany at the IWA show so it wont be until after the 23rd.

Sempert and Krieghoff began in 1885 as per their catagloue and other sources give 1886 or open for business in 1886. Sempert & Krieghoff isn't a parent company to Krieghoff as Heinrich Krieghoff left his father Ludwig to hang out his own shingle in 1916 and acquired Valentin Chr. Schillings machinery post WWI. Upon Ludwig's death in 1924, Heinrich folded Sempert & Krieghoff under Krieghoff. Is the double a Lefaucheux action(forward lever) or a Jones Underlever type? The bands are probably silver or platnum and is it game scene engraved? I'd guess it to be from the 1890s and probably sourced from Sauer. In the early 1920s Sempert and Kreighoff offer Roechling Elektro steel tubes as an option, as well as other types, and the Elektro was all due to Hermann Roechling and Wilhelm Rodenhauser developing an induction or electrical furnace in 1907 which allowed the very fine tuning of the characteristics of metal/steel. Around this same time edelstahl or stainless was developed/introduced. The furnaces were electric; hence the name Elektro. But if there isn't a powder charge and load stamp on the side of the tubes, it would be pre-1910 and I don't know how long it took advances in metals to trickle down to tubes for longarms, but it well could have been in 1907 or before. So the S&K, possibly a Model FATA, could date into the very early part of the 20th century. It's going to have 65mm chambers. I'd check the length of pull.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

Thanks for sharing that valuable information. Very educational.

Pete

Thanks for the outstanding info. I didn't see any markings on the side of the barrels. The only visible marking without dissasembly was the name on the rib. I'm not very familiar with the different action types. It had a wood forearm with a long lever running along the bottom. It looked like the lever on a Husquavarna. At the tip if the forend there was a metal piece that pushed to the side to release the forearm. I didn't have but a few minutes to look at it. I know there was engraving on the receiver but I don't remember it being a game scene.

I did a google search for the different action types. I'm pretty sure it is the Lefaucheux action.

From what you describe it is a Lefaucheux action and it's only drawback was that as powder technology advanced with guncotton and semi-smokeless/nitro, the action was considered weak. Many times there is "Crown" over "V"(Vorrat) on the top rib and another set of tubes if the right trigger is a French stecher/single set. Just a guess was that it was made in the late 1880s or early 1890s as that type action fell out of favor. I will also guess that the locks(I assume they are backaction) have "S&S" stamped on the back side. If you do purchase it, pleasure us with some pic especially of the flats.

Kind Regards,

Raimey