doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com NID Mag Ten and modern shells

I have recently acquired an Ithaca NID Mag 10. The previous owner had Briley chokes installed. It came with a set of lead choke tubes and a set of steel choke tubes. I am not thrilled with the idea of shooting steel through this gun, although the prior owner had done so. Not a lot of steel, but some. I am getting a set of chamber inserts (GaugeMate gold 10 to 12 XL) so as to permit me to use 12 gauge ammo on occasion.

What are the thoughts and opinions on using 12 gauge Hevi-Shot and some of the other super tungsten alloys utilizing the inserts in this gun. Would the extra bore diameter help prevent or reduce the chance for scoring and other issues which arise with the use of these very hard shot in older guns?

I see two questions presented: (i) what are the chances of damage to the barrels; and (ii) are the any issues (such as excessive pressure) arising from using these "modern" loads. I am not deeply concerned about the pressure issues given the robust nature of this action, but I am concerned about barrel damages.

What a waste - using 12ga shells in a perfectly good 10ga Magnum! Feed that beastie it's preferred shells and enjoy significant ballistic improvement over any 12ga ever to have been. You have to carry the weight anyway so take full advantage. Oh, I have no idea whether the steel and hevi shot are ill advised because that would depend to large extent on the barrel steel and thickness. The makers of the gun certainly didn't anticipate shooting steel, hevi shot or the tungsten loads so it would be accidental (not design) if the bores withstood scoring. I do know that 12ga loads will not increase their pressure by being fired in a larger 10ga bore.

Your gun is one of only about 800 made, so if you screw up a barrel, its not going to be replaced. Your gun was made in the 30's so was never intended for anything but lead. I use Bismuth in mine. 3 1/2" modern factory Bismuth shells are fine, I reload short 2 7/8 Bismuth for ducks as well. So, basically pressure isnt the issue here, the gun is a tank, but the barrels are too soft for stel much less any of the tungsten/steel alloys like heavy shot. With one of those loads if a pellet gets through a wad petal and contacts the bore, bad things will happen. I know folks who shoot steel in older guns after relieving the chokes, but why take a chance.

Here's a good link discussing various shot types http://members.cox.net/azwildlife/Shotgun.htm Scroll down a bit. Do NOT use Hevi-Shot and word is that Kent Tungsten Matrix is no longer available.

This is pure speculation, but one might assume when firing a 12ga wad through a 10ga bore, there would be an increased chance of the shot making actual contact with the bore, through the wad opening up, spreading the slots. It is necessary to prevent bore contact with these harder shot to prevent scoring. Choke bulging is of course another situation altogether. You would likely have no problem there with use of the proper choke tubes. I do not think I would risk shooting 12ga wads with hard shot.

My NID 3 1/2" has yet to go waterfowling under my tutorage, but will go the bismuth route, regardless.

Shoot steel or whatever, look for damage which will occur very gradually, if at all. For gosh sakes, man, someone has already done damage that is not gradual and cannot be repaired. I shoot steel in an AYA with .040 of choke and just clean and inspect the bores a couple of times a season. So far there is no sign of any scoring or bulging at the choke. I'm sure your steel chokes are nowhere near .040 and should be fine for any loads.

Be aware that Hevi-shot is harder than most of TODAY'S barrel steels. So, if there's contact for whatever reason, count on some scoring in the worst possible orientation from a wall strength standpoint.

I'm not dissing Hevi-shot which is certainly impressive, and I know that there are wads that are supposed to contain it. However, I'd still avoid using it in any valuable, irreplacable barrel, except possibly one that's chrome lined (and I'd check hardnesses and think carefully about that).

Thank you all for your input. I recognize the irreplaceable nature of the barrels on this gun and that is why I started with discussion instead of with an experiment. Particularly in light of the comment made by 2-piper about the 12 gauge wad in a 10 bore barrel opening enough to let these very hard shot scrub, this idea is dead.

I will use the inserts with lead target loads for practice, so as to become accustomed to shooting this gun. I believe the only non-lead fodder it will see will be Bismuth. Steel and the choke tubes marked steel will only be used in situations where I have failed to have the foresight to have proper ammo available, and then, only steel of moderate pressure.

First-off the barrels are not all-original, kinda takes it out of the collector's mode.
When in doubt on fowlers, alway buy 12s, they can be used in leaded upland hunting.