doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Where does Boss& Co fit in?

Oh, concerning the H&H's? Yes, there is quite a bit of difference in the 2. Mine is 119 years old, Damascus barrels, Fiddle-Back English walnut, true Antique, that has a Queen Victoria warrant engraved on the escutcheon, and IMHO, more desirable, if you are in to the classics, as I am.

again, thanks for asking

binko

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...ge=4#Post120835



Binko...Now you got me confused.

You have two H&H's ?

Touche, I guess I had a senior moment, and you helped me in my time of need. Yes, as you so eloquently pointed out, I did offer the H&H for a price to Jeweler, but it was never really for sale openly. That was at a time when I was having some heart problems, and thought I would try to put some cash together for doctor bills, because the doctor said I was a candidate for a defibrillator, for 50 thousand dollars I didn't have. I have since gotten my blood pressure under control, and I am feeling a lot better, so it is no longer for sale, and I had forgotten about that bad stretch of health problems and the few stupid things I did back then.

thanks again jOe

binko

Small Bore: You said the "Cavalier" box locks by H & H can be " Dreadful'
Please explain??

I recall that Boss marketed its boxlocks and lesser quality guns under the name of its owner, John Robertson, rather than Boss, thereby allowing them to advertise that Boss only made best quality guns. Compared to the practice of Purdey's and H&H to put their name on everything they sold, is this perhaps a distinction without a difference?

Binko, Interesting Holland. Do you have any more pictures? Is the receiver blued? I noticed a card explaining the history of the gun behind it. Can you tell me more about the gun?

I'll see and also put up the text on the card if you would like?

binko

Wallis, here is what I've come up with.

1890 Holland & Holland, “Royal Ejector”


1890 Holland & Holland, “Royal Ejector”, serial # 12761, 12ga, SxS, 30" Damascus barrels w/ perfect bores and no pitting, fairly recently re-browned, no dents or bulges. The barrels have no choke as ordered by “Sir Traed” of the Balmoral Estate, Scotland. This is a bespoke weapon which carries a Royal Crest Warrant, [Crown & Unicorn], authorized by Queen Victoria, which was issued by her Royal Arsenal, and such is engraved on the escutcheon. This is the #2 gun of an original pair, and is so designated, in gold, on the barrel and receiver. The # 1 gun is still at the estate, and was re-barreled in 1952 by Holland & Holland, according to their records, which also states that the #2 gun has never been returned to them. The stock is in a beautiful "fiddle-back" English walnut, with light handling marks, but no cracks or gouges. It has the early, "must have for any serious Holland & Holland collector", "Dipped Edge, Leg of Mutton, Rigby Style", side-locks, and the receiver was re-colored by Doug Turnbull. It is in an Oak and Leather, Henry Atkin from Purdey's, case, and it is also of the 1890's period. The case shows considerable wear on the outside, but it is structurally, very sound. The inside is covered with a red dyed "Falkland Island's Wool", and it has been modified to fit the receiver and butt stock after a leather recoil pad was recently added. This gun has been hunted with for the last 2 years, and it is in excellent condition.

This information was gleaned from the former owner who has since passed, and Holland & Holland in New York City.


“A Cased Holland and Holland, Royal Side Lock Ejector, with the very durable Rigby shaped locks vintage 1890. This is a 1890 London best gun, a rare, fine, bespoke weapon used at the Balmoral estate in Scotland during Queen Victoria reign. These Holland and Holland’s set the standards for bespoke, hammerless guns and set the rapid advancement in action development during the 90's. It has a royal warrant crest on the echelon, and the tubes are 30" low profile, with good bores minor pitting and BP proof concave tapering solid rib original Holland and Holland Damascus choked open and open as was the rage for those days. The LOP is 15 with stunning wood to a leather pad. The DAC 1 7/16, DAH is 2 1/4 with a 3/8 "cast off. The gun balances perfect and at 6 lbs 12 oz swings very smooth. The Holland action was colored by Doug Turnbull, Barrel browned by Buck Hamlin. Wood work and Leather pad by David Yale. “

This is an excellent game gun for pheasant, grouse, and late season doves, and certainly a treasured, heritage gun.













that's it, hope all enjoy,

binko

jOe,

Especially for you, the hinge screw is fixed now!

binko

Gomiata,

The Cavalier was built on machinery imported from Webley & Scott, when Holland & Holland took over the firm around 1980.

Now, the old Webley 700 and its derivatives were good,, solid guns that generally looked OK and handled well and proved dependable. Quality varies and those made in the mid-late 1970s can be rather poor but H&H decided to make a 'London boxlock and sell it as a Holland & Holland product. they brought the machinery to London and made some 'improvements'.

One criticism levelled at the old 700 was the lack of a removable hinge pin.(In reality no big deal) So, H&H added one.

They decided to make the guns a bit more sophisticated so they got hold of the top strap and shortened it, thereby losing the hand pin. This may have looked a bit more elegant but the wrist now has too little support - result is flexing and cracking and a neeed for re-stocking if the guns are given any hard use. the only solution is to retrospectively fit a hand pin.

Chequering on these guns is often not very well done, the finishing on the actions is crude and the details like lettering inlaid in gold lacks finesse - I have even seen pairs where the lettering is not the same size and does not match.

Barrel quality is not too hot either - I have some in now and when we dropped them in the tank, we got bubbles everywhere - had to strip and re-lay the ribs and re-secure the loops.

Very disappointing for guns that are less than 30 years old.