doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Looking for my first American classic

Hello to all!

As you can tell by the date I joined this BBS, I am a longtime lurker and an avis raris when it comes to a person who posts. I chime in when I feel I have something to contribute, but when it comes to classic guns I feel many of you here are light years ahead of me. I have been shooting doubleguns almost 20 years and I recently I realized that the time for me has come to find a nice American double. All these years, I have been shooting either Spanish or Italian doubles --which I like a lot. I am not completely new to American doubles, I did own a early A.H. Fox AE that had a straight grip that I thought was original (as told when I bought it). Turned out I was wrong. I thought I had asked all the right questions, but apparently I missed something. I also later learned that the colors most likely had been touched up with a torch. I had bought this gun from a supposedly "reputable" dealer who should have known that the grip was not original and the colors were torched, but he never mentioned a word. Part of paying my dues? I don't know. But by luck, I was able to disclose both these facts and still sell it for about what I paid for it and not take a huge loss. As a result, I am still a bit nervous about making a similar mistake again.

In any case, once again I have decided to look for my first American SxS. I am considering Parkers, Foxes, Lefevers, Elsies, or perhaps an Ithaca. I would like a straight grip gun, but am willing to settle for a semi-pistol grip. I am looking for a gun w/28" or 30" damascus barrels (I reload) and I shoot a 14 5/8 LOP. I am looking to spend up to $2000. I am not sure if I should buy a project gun for several hundred dollars (I can refinish and checker myself) or if I should buy something finished.

What do you guys suggest? Any particular maker? Where should I start?

Thanks in advance,

Buy the Lefever listed in the For Sale section of this site.

It looks like a nice gun. I have a EE like it.

I've owned Foxes, Parkers, Ithacas, & LC Smiths and I think Lefevers are the best of the major American shotgun makers.

OWD

My first and only classic American SxS is 12ga 28" 1930 vintage Savage made Sterlingworth. At 6lb11oz it's remarkably good handling shotgun. Much like W.W.Greener Emperor or Empire Grade it's very simple design which takes a beatin' and keeps on tickin'. I know next to nothing about the other guns you have mentioned other then Parker is most costly to buy and Lefever most unique.

No Damascus Foxes, David. If you find one of those, it's DEFINITELY not original! (Or maybe worth a whole bunch of money as a collector.)

Consider Remington 1894s & 1900s also.

Ansley made Twist and Damascus barrel guns in Baltimore -- http://www.foxcollectors.com/baltimore_gun_co.htm

Also, the 1905 Philadelphia Arms Co. Fox catalogue offers the option of Damascus barrels on Grade C and above, but I've yet to find a PAC Fox with Damascus barrels.

Then of course there were the George H. Fox side-swing hammer doubles made by the American Arms Co. at 103 Milk Street in Boston, and they were made with Twist, Laminated, Damascus and Bernard barrels.

Hi David:

The Fox Philladelphia Sterlingworth sixteen gauges are usually pretty light (6 lbs) and lots of stock drop (about 1-3/4 by 2-3/4) although there is variety.

Most of the American doubles in original condition in the price range you are talking about have a lot of drop.

The Lefever FE in the classfieds is a very nice gun and I really like the chain Damascus. Lefevers usually run to the heavy side and I would guess that one weighs 7-1/2 pounds. Lefever sixteen typically run about 6-3/4lbs although I have seen them as light as 6-1/4 and I have one that weight 7-1/4lbs.

If you want to shoot clays the big American SxS twelves are certainly in their element. Most of them were built to shoot gooses I guess. 30" barrels are very common. You could get a nice Ithaca Flues (LastDollar/Chuck has listed a rebranded Ithaca Flues (Sears Brand I believe - "Western Field") twelve gauge with 32" barrels. I handled the gun when I pheasant hunted with him - $425. The triggers are very good.

I have seen many of your posts around the internet and your Spanish guns are all beatiful and well made and finished to a tee. They typically are lighter and have higher stocks than the average American double in the same gauge. If you want a light upland gun the Sterlingworths and Flues in sixteen and twenty both run pretty light. How is your pointing pup doing? I shoot low pressure reloads in my guns that were originally chambered 2-1/2" (or 2-/9/16 or 2-5/8"). In the guns originally chambered 2-3/4" I shoot Walmart standard (not high velocity or magnum) 2-3/4" shells.

Several times I have posted data and pictures of guns I am considering buying on this BBS and have gotten excellent feedback and opinions and have dodged the bullet on a few bad apples. Several times I gained enough information that I was confident enough to go ahead and make a deal I wouldn't have otherwise.

The Cabelas Gun Library operation has lots of warts but they do post a lot of information and pictures of their guns. I have returned guns to them and they didn't argue. I did get stuck with about $70 in shipping. My 75 year-old Mother-in-law could get 10% off of the list price.

Best,

Mike

I won't be buying another American classic because I have enough with Parker, Fox and L.C. Smith to see me through. But you're on the right track, David. There's nothing like owning an important piece of your culture, of a time of Old World craftsmanship and lots of birds.

You obviously know a good gun when you see it, and none here can do your thinking for you. I like plain guns (all are the same inside). The field grade 20ga L.C. Smith is an elegant gun to me, as is my 12ga Fox SW and Parker hammer 16ga 0 grade. All of the American common man of a century ago.

There's an aesthetic to these guns, any of them, Lefever and Ithaca, too, and it's for you to enjoy whether it's a project or from a shop. On a personal note, I use these old guns, rain or shine. They and the dog are a big part of why I hunt. Keeping them in a vault makes no more sense to me than hunting without boots.

Buy that Lefever, quick. Someone is going to snatch it up before the weekend is over.

If you don't go for it, I have a few guns I'm going to be selling:

-12g Parker VHE on a 1 1/2 frame, 1921 vintage, 28"

-12g Fox Sterlingworth, a Parker-style pin gun with ejectors, 30"

-16g LC Smith Field grade, featherweight, extractors, 28"

These are all nice shooters with pistol grips, splinter forends, double triggers. The Smith has a lot of original finish and it's one of the lightest 16g Smiths I've seen or owned.

OWD

David:

If you decide to go for a project gun, let me know. I have a pair of NIDs that might fit your bill. One's a 1 1/2 grade the other a field. Both with cocking indicators. Solid shooters that need cosmetics. Each would make a fine foundation for a custom gun, or just shoot as is. If we work out a deal I will send Dave his fee for posting here.

Just traded away a very good Lefever HE that would have been perfect for you. Oh, well...