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Joined: Jan 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,002 |
Guys: Can't seem to find info on this ... which choke is the more open, WS-1 or WS-2? Thanks in advance. TT
"The very acme of duck shooting is a big 10, taking ducks in pass shooting only." - Charles Askins
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,418 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,418 Likes: 2 |
WS1 is the more open of the 2...WS1 more open than IC...WS2 is between IC and Mod....WS2 is very rare on a single barreled gun...
gunut
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,815 Likes: 4 |
My WS1 is cyl bore plus flaring out at the last inch at the muzzle and my WS2 is .009.
Both on my M21 Skeet gun
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,109 Likes: 78
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,109 Likes: 78 |
The actual internal profile and measurements of a WS-1 can vary quite a bit gun to gun. I have one with a .008 constriction followed by a flare to greater than bore size. It does indeed work very well as a skeet choke. Closest to this design in a modern production item are the Beretta Mobil and Optima skeet chokes.
Winchester claimed the WS-1 was designed for optimum at 20 yards, the WS-2 for optimum at 30 yards. Most would consider the WS-2 to be light modified, if not actually modified.
"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 871 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 871 Likes: 3 |
Agree with Jones. I have measured many WS1 and WS2 chokes in 12, 16, and 20 ga. Oddly, 12 ga WS1 is often as tight as .008 or .009 before flare section. You will encounter the odd unaltered WS2 12 that is as loose as .010 (though many run around .014). A further curiosity is that 12 ga Win mod can be as loose as .008. Go figure.
In 20s WS1 usually runs .003 (constriction before flare), and most WS2s I've seen were around .010. I have an unaltered M12 mod barrel that runs .007.
The two 16 ga WS1s I've measured were .003 and .004 before flare. A friend has a WS2 M-12 16, but I haven't had a chance to measure it.
I would add that if that flare section actually did something to patterns in the pre-shotcup era, it certainly does nothing now with modern ammo. On paper, WS1 patterns in accordance with the measured constriction.
Sam
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 521 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 521 Likes: 4 |
Here's a question - is the flare an integral part of Winchester's skeet choke, or is it just the hallmark of handworked chokes (aka manufacturing tolerances)?
I have a M12 skeet that tapers (v slightly) all the way to the muzzle. I also have a very original F&F M21 Trap with 32 points of choke in each tube, but one barrel flares 7 mils.
What I have found over the years is that is is very unusual to find identical choke profiles in two barrels from the same manufacturers.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 871 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 871 Likes: 3 |
The flare is a specified WS1 design feature. A WS1 barrel that has been cut (maybe b/c the very thin flare section got dinged up) might not have a flare.
WS2 has no flare, is similar to other Winchester chokes and tapers to the muzzle. I have never seen a factory Win choke with a significant flat section, as is common with aftermarket choke tubes from various makers.
Pre-64s in 28 and .410 stamped "skeet" do not have a constriction/flare like WS1.
Sam
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,002
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,002 |
Sam: I also have a Model 12 Skeet in 16-ga. choked WS-2 (built in 1936). I'll try to get it and someone with the right tools in the same place at the same time to measure the bore, and will then share the results. I just committed to purchase its big brother, a 1937 Skeet in 12-ga. choked WS-1, which is why I was asking the question about the difference in the two chokes. Thanks to all for the explanation. TT
"The very acme of duck shooting is a big 10, taking ducks in pass shooting only." - Charles Askins
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