doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com OT Model 12

Can anyone tell me if this gun looks right or not. I'm really not sure. It is serial # 735059. It is a 16ga. 26" solid rib. Choked WS-1. It is marked SKEET under the serial#. Straight stock with black diamonds. Thank you for letting me post it here. Paul
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I know but little about these guns but the stock is very nice indeed. -Jani

Well, its still a nice gun. Nice stick, and WS1 16 is a great configuration. But the metal has been redone. Pics are tough, but it looks like blue may have plummed. Wood should be proud of the pad - not the reverse.

Sam

The black diamond stock would be very suspect on a gun marked "Skeet". To get a black diamond stock from the factory, a Trap Grade gun with a skeet choke barrel would have normally been supplied. The metal refinish doesn't appear to be well done, but it may be possible to repair it, at some cost. The wood would have to be replaced with a Skeet Grade stock, probably with scant grip to be proper for the period. The gun would not satisfy a serious collector.

Thought it would make a damn nice shooter, it is not factory original and as 8b said, it's not for the serious collector.
It would need the correct stock and a proper refinish.

Someone put it together to sell(likely at a inflated price) to an unsuspecting person.

I bet it was really something when it was new. I notice that it has the "pat. pending" for the WS-1 choke stamped under the choke marking. Some have the actual pat. # 2054132 stamped there.

Nice example of what is often referred to as non-professional refinish. This is precisely why I'm a Remington and Ithaca guy.

I would say the wood is not original. I have never seen an original Winchester buttstock curve up like that on the bottom. The forearm also looks rather sharp at the rear corners. Original Winchester wood is more rounded. The rib is probably original- most 16 gauge skeet Model 12s have a solid rib. But you still have a nice gun. How does it shoot?

Question and some further thoughts.

Ignoring the sanded checkering for a moment, what do you guys make of satin/oil finished wood on prewars? Does that necessarily imply refinish? Were all stocks given the heavier lacquer coat?

While on the subject of assessing M-12s (worth discussing!).....if you knew nothing else, you'd be somewhat suspicious of any "factory original" stock with so much figure in the wrist. And that observation applies to literally every firearm WW ever made - from lever guns on up the ladder.

And if you want to refinish a M12 or 21 receiver the very least you ought do is get the direction of filing correct.

But, for a decent price, that's still a nice M12 16.

Sam

M12 pictured below is '47 plain barrel skeet (so marked under serial) w/ factory collet adjustable Cutts. Stock has Winny butplate and grip cap but I haven't pulled it to see if there's a stamp under the buttplate or at the head. Look at the wrist area. Looks color marbled much as does the main body of the stock and near as I can tell, the main grain cleavage is at a diagonal to the long run of the stock. Not saying that's a good thing; just the way it is. Maybe the exception that proves the rule or the exception that invites speculation that they weren't "that" fussy?





jack

Jack,

That certainly looks original. I had meant to narrow the discussion down to prewars as earlier in my post (too much cut and paste). I've seen postwar guns with figure in the wrist. Even so, I haven't seen it too often. And certainly nothing like the frequency seen with Olin-Kodensha guns.

Sam