Hi folks!

I have not been back to this forum for quite a while, since my interests ebb and flow. However, the haunting question has been "date of manufacture" of my Merkel, purchased in Munich, Germany.

Merkel Model 122

S x S (same as Simson Model 76E)
Pre-owned, highest grade box-lock
Selective ejectors
Bushed firing pins (3-hole)
Game-scene engraved side-plates'
Brass-pin cocking indicator, protruding from each side-plate
Double triggers (black)
Arabesque engraved trigger-guard (black), edge zig-zag engraved
Receiver/forend -- Silver Nitride finish,
Receiver floorplate, modest Arabesque and the "Suhl Tradesman" 'trademark' stamping, with 'SUHL' stamped underneath
Barrels - raised solid rib, but slightly swamped, single brass bead
Pistol grip stock
18 to 19 lines/inch checkering stock/forend
Germanic cheek-piece (tear-drop oval)
Stock/forend - straight-grain, with medium dark bands of figure
Dark-stained stock/forend, oil finished
Forend - Arabesque engraving on lock-release mechanism

I am What might be the date of manufacture?

Gun has the following stampings:

Watertable

1a) 470299 (s/n ?)
1b) ((one each) stamping appears to be a "toadstool or 'lamp & shade' or torch")

Barrel Flats(looking down, chamber-end)
"left-side

2a) JS (encircled) ((Suhler Jagdwaffen ?), I think era of Soviet Occupation, about 1946 to 1998.)
2b) 18.5
2c) "toadstool or 'lamp & shade' or torch" stamping
2d) 10KG
2e) the Suhl Proof House "shield"
2f) 1/2 (choke ?)
2g) 12/76 (12-bore/3-inch chamber)

Barrel Flats (looking down, chamber-end)
"right-side"

3a) 18.6
3b) 470299 (s/n ?)
3c) 1/1 (choke ?)
3d) 12/76 (12-bore/ 3-inch chamber)

Under-barrel rib

4a) 'K2101' (between ejector rods and forend lug)
4b) 0 (at right angle to the 'K2101', but between the 'K2101' and the forend lug

Double-barrel (sighting rib - side)

5a) 1st line - GEBR. MERKEL SUHL
5b) 2nd line - MADE IN GERMANY
5c) Importer's name under left barrel N.E.Custom Guns Ltd-Plainsfield, NH (Mr. Appel had controlling interest at that time.)

Forend/lock-release casting (barrel-side)
6a) 70299 (s/n identifier ?)

Hope some of this helps! :)John

Send me any images & I'll post them for you. I wonder if the 10KG is the datecode?


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

10KG as a datecode doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me as I've never seen anything other than straight numbers - month and year - for the datecode.

Pictures....

It would make sense if it was from the period when a letter sequence was used and I think it is used today. Something like A-K for 0 - 9 or similar.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Yes, I believe you fellows are on the right track. I vaguely remember a similar cipher discussed on the other forum
(general forum), before this German/Austrian forum was hatched.

Raimey, I sent you a PM.

:)John

The PM hasn't arrived. Post 1968 the letter convention was to be used but I don't think all subscribed. Don't know when or if the Jahreszeichen fully converted back to numerical but after unification I think the Jahreszeichen went back to letter. It may have been an attempt to prevent the easy ID of the year of proof and inject a bit of haze as to how long a sporting weapon had been in the shop. Anyone have a post 2000 with proofmarks? Also remember that I/J are one.

A 0
B 1
C 2
D 3
E 4
F 5
G 6
H 7
I/J 8
k 9

So 10KG must might be for October 1996?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thanks, Raimey, 10KG = Oct., 1996

Then I came along in Oct., 1999, put gun on my credit card, and have wondered how this gun survived so well for perhaps several years....all along it was only three years old when I bought it. It sure looked well taken care of.

Raimey, thank you for offering to post photos for me. I'd still like to share some photos of my Merkel, yet, don't even know how to attach photos to a PM, nor email, but want to learn. This was the crux of my PM to you.
:)John

John:
Email them to me & I'll make sure they are posted & I'll try to describe how you could do it. The mixing of numeric for the month and letters for the year is a bit odd but I guess it is possible. I would say the position the mark holds might be a clue. Ground truth would be to contact Merkel with the serial nr. & they would put us on the straight & narrow.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Well, that can resolve the mystery. My Simson has "1079" on the barrel flats, so at least as of October 1979 Simson hadn't signed on to changing to letters.

As noted, ground truth would be to contact Merkel, but this is much more fun.

Indeed a guessing game and we all eat, breath & sleep it for some unknown reason. I guess one would call it a hobby or refer to it as an obsession?????

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Should I call Merkel with my model and s/n, send email or send written letter for date of manufacture / cipher of my gun?

Perhaps, they would give me the key to their cipher / DOM (for their entire business history), since I'm already a customer and belong to this BBS, as well. I've learned, if I don't ask, I won't get.

:)John

I sent them an email with serial number, and received their answer with date and model number in about a week. That was a few years ago.

With kind regards,
Jani

Hi, Jani!

Well, may I try for you? Please PM your info. and their customer service email address.
I'll give it a whirl and keep you posted. I looked for their website last night, looking for email addy, etc.; however, was not successful, yet.

:)John

John's Merkel:





10KG datacode type stamp









Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

http://www.merkel-usa.com/contact/


POB 840
Trussville, Alabama 35173
205-655-8299

Thanks, Dave for the USA connection.

What I need is the telephone number and / or email addy of current mfg. of Merkel in Suhl, since my mod. 122 came out of German sources (purchased used in 1999 from Frankonia, Munich, Germany. (Mr. Apel had already taken us through the Merkel plant in Suhl.) I then had Mr. Apel import and engrave gun on under-side of left bbl., New England Custom Guns Ltd., Plainsfield, NH, as importer (required by USA Fed law).
:)John

More pics, just for practice:

Perhaps, a bit off-topic:

Of my five photos, the third (middle) photo shows the standing breech, with bushed firing pin. I assume that the holes left and right of the firing pin hole are to remove the bushing, and easily replace or adjust the firing pin. What is the purpose of the hole immediately underneath the bushing and firing pin hole?

Smilinjohn,
The holes to the left and right are,as you thought, for a spanner wrench to remove the bushing.The one underneath seems to be a socket head setscrew-curious.I would be interested in what Joe Steele thinks.
Mike

Just curious....where'd you find that filthy ol' beat up thing?

Beautiful, simply beautiful.

info@merkel-waffen.de

With kind regards,
Jani

On closer examination, with better lighting and a bit of magnification, the lower holes appear to have roll-pins inserted, not set-screws, as you thought. Might, what appears as roll-pins, be inserted to prevent, inadvertant fallout of the bushing in the field?

Note: I understand that the Merkel 122 and Simson 76E (both top of line boxlocks) offered many options, not offered by some of the other Ernst Thalmann models; i.e., hinged-trigger; single selective trigger (even, with an additional set-trigger); bushed firing-pins; optional side-plate engraving patterns, in deep-relief; presentation Walnut, etc......and for really deep pockets, they offered the Luxus Grade. My 1985 Catalog (reproduction, not translated), even shows Merkel Model 8 Luxus.

smilinjohn,
The rollpins seem to be outside the "joint". It would only stop the bushing from turning if it bisected the joint.A roll pin could only be used in a "through hole",since there would be no way to extract it from a "blind hole".This gets "curiouser and curiouser". Maybe someone can find patent drawings that show what they are for,or maybe you could just take it apart.
Mike

Thanks, Jani, for the addy.....just what I thought that I needed. Raimey suggested that I first try the German trained gunsmith at Merkel-USA's gunshop, as he best might be able to find answers at the factory in Suhl for us. Being German trained, he probabally speaks the language, too.

MORE PRACTICE I

MORE PRACTICE II

MORE PRACTICE III

I believe you have about mastered it with a little bit of tweaking.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Would the gold colored (brass?) pins protruding from the sidelocks be cocking indicators? I have never seen any in such a location.

Yup, you guessed correctly.

smilinjohn, the small photos are copies of the thumbnails, if you click on them in Photobucket to enlarge first before copying we will see the large photo.