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Posted By: Michael Petrov Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/22/12 07:58 PM
Barney Worthen is best known for his take-down rifles he made while in San Francisco. His rifles are very slim through the wrist and well balanced overall. Many have a spring-loaded bolt lock that helps keep the bolt in the closed position. Many of rifle originally had a silver oval in the grip cap for initials. For whatever reason most have fallen out, I suspect it was the type of glue he used.






Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/22/12 07:59 PM
He made non take-down rifles as well.



Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/22/12 08:05 PM
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/22/12 09:02 PM
The reason for this new interest in Barney Worthen is because I was contacted a couple weeks ago by his great-grandson. He had just received a couple of photo albums / scrap books belonging to Barney Worthen. He knew little of his great-grandfather's gunmaking. The good news is that he has taken an interest and is going to share the information.

The albums are full of pictures, letters and pictures from customers, newspaper and magazine articles plus a lot more. He has just started reading and scanning some of it.

If folks who have Barney Worthen rifles contact me I'll try to share what I get. Maybe we will be able to put original owners names with rifles today.

He would also like to purchase a Worthen take-down rifle so if you hear of one for sale please let me know.
Posted By: LRF Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/22/12 09:03 PM
Look light in apperance, I like.
Close ups of the takedown dismounted would be interesting, barrel shank and locking mechanism, if possible.
Thanks
Posted By: Ryan McNabb Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/22/12 11:15 PM
I think Worthen is an amazing artist. He and Owen were the pinnacle to my eye. I hope you'll be allowed to put some or all of this new information here Michael.
Posted By: Herschel Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/22/12 11:44 PM
I had never heard of Worthen until last month at the Wanenmacher show. A collector had two Worthen rifles on display at the show and he bought a third one there. He demonstrated how the come apart. It was a treat to see that.
Posted By: prairie ghost Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 01:09 AM
Beautiful rifles all. Are the stock dimensions given in the brochure typical of most pre-war rifles?
Posted By: Altamaha Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 01:22 AM
Beautiful rifle,thanks for posting the photos.

And thanks for posting the brochure with the stock details!
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 02:17 AM
The above write-up came from the August 15th 1920 Arms and the Man magazine.
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 02:19 AM
My thanks to Mr. Worthen for this picture. Before last week I had never seen a picture of Barney Worthen.

Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 02:21 AM
I can't find a picture of the take-down and just don't have time right now to do that.

Dan, do you have yours apart and can you take a picture for us?
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 02:24 AM
Just to show you that the hat, white shirt and tie was not a one time thing ;-).

Posted By: DanLH Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 05:20 AM
MP,

I do have it apart and the butt stock is at the stock doctors. I will take some photos of the barrel portion tomorrow and send them to you to post.

Dan
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 05:34 AM
Dan,

Thanks, I'll look for them.

Also we might have a good reason there would be a ventilated rib on a Worthen rifle. I knew that he was a trap shooter but did not understand how involved it in he was. More on the subject as we get into this a bit further.
Posted By: eightbore Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 02:01 PM
Steve Barnett had a small collection of Worthen takedowns for sale several years ago. Did any of us take advantage?
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 06:56 PM
A look at the two types of bolt-locks that I know of.

This is the early type.



This is the later one and the most common found. There is an indent in the back of the extractor.

Posted By: LRF Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 08:17 PM
In the article it said they thought he had patented the idea, however I was not able to find it. Does anyone know that he did and if so, what the patent number is?
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 08:33 PM
I have never found any patent for him. If your doing a search his given name was "Bernard" Henry Worthen.
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 08:42 PM
Originally Posted By: prairie ghost
Beautiful rifles all. Are the stock dimensions given in the brochure typical of most pre-war rifles?


This is a very hard question to answer as all these were custom rifles made to fit the new owner.

A rifle for some one 5'2" would be a lot different than a rifle made for, say, a man 6'4". A lot of folks would like me to write the stock dimensions but I have resisted because I can only see more confusion than something useful.

Here is what I wrote about a Wundhammer rifle that was made for a shooting prize and I assume these are some what a one-size-fits-all.

"From this new center line the bottom of the buttplate was then cast-off 1/8” total cast-off for the toe is 3/8”. The length of pull is 13 ¾”. This is measured from the center of the trigger to the center of the buttplate. The drop at the comb is 1 ¾” and the drop at the heel is 3”. These measurements are taken from a line drawn through the center of the front sight through the rear sight, continuing on to the end of the stock. The rifle weighs 7 ¾ lb. and the forearm is 10 ½” long measured from the front of the receiver ring."
Posted By: prairie ghost Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/23/12 10:39 PM
Michael, thanks for the answer. I was looking for a starting point for a future project.
Posted By: BrentD, Prof Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/24/12 12:40 AM
Michael, I would like to enter another plea for stock dimensions. while different people need or prefer different things, it is also true that the rifles you are showing are in a transitional era between irons and scopes and with a goodly bit of muzzleloading influence perhaps still prevalent. And shooting styles also changed.

When I look at that first rifle in this thread, the first thing I noticed is what seems to be enormous drop. At least it looks enormous but maybe with the rest of the dimensions, it's not as dramatic as it looks.

Nice rifles. Worthen sure knew what he was doing.
Posted By: LRF Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/24/12 01:32 AM
Brent,
It takes some work but it is relatively easy to get the stock dimensions that you may want right from the pictures Michael posts.
The short story is if you have a CAD program, like Draftsight which is a free download, you can insert Michaels picture into the CAD program. Then use the CAD program to measure one known dimension like the action or barrel length. Now comparing the actual real life dimension to the CAD dimension scale the drawing so that the picture in the CAD drawing is full size. Then it is as easy as pie to measure any feature of the stock you wish.
Now it sounds complicated but really isn't, just a little reverse engineering.
Posted By: Ryan McNabb Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/24/12 02:39 AM
Michael, did he pretty much stick to the issue front sight on his rifles?

Also: what is going on with the trigger in the top rifle? You can see it in the shot from beneath, into the trigger guard. It looks like it's got a groove or split milled into it. Is it something more than the issue trigger?

Thanks
Posted By: prairie ghost Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/24/12 03:22 AM
Note in both instances drop measurements are from "line of sight" - with original front sight or any for that matter, one could easily deduce the more common(today) measurement from center of bore.
Posted By: BrentD, Prof Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/24/12 03:28 AM
LRF, yes, I can do it empeiically. I have done it, several times for muzzleloaders. But that is hardly practical when reading up on a type of rifle or group of rifle makers to understand their ideas about what works.

The art of fitting rifles seems almost lost these days. Not to mention the layouts for rifles that are built around iron sights. At least you don't find much discussion of it when listening to modern cognoscenti discussing the merits of a McMillan vs. a Bell and Carson, etc.

Anyway, it is something that I would like to see mentioned more often in descriptions of classic rifles of all types.
Posted By: LRF Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/24/12 12:42 PM
Sorry I couldn't help.
Posted By: Carpetsahib Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/24/12 02:17 PM
Quote:
The art of fitting rifles seems almost lost these days. Not to mention the layouts for rifles that are built around iron sights. At least you don't find much discussion of it when listening to modern cognoscenti discussing the merits of a McMillan vs. a Bell and Carson, etc.
When I am laying out a stock, I trace the barreled action onto a thin wood plank, and design the rest of the rifle off that tracing. Typical dimensions on the plank are 1/2" thick, 48" long, 10" wide. After completing the design, I band saw the outline of the pattern; it will be similar to a try gun and will give a good idea as to the fit. If something seems amiss, then corrections are easy to make.
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/24/12 07:01 PM
Here are some pictures from Dan. I'll try to answer all the questions as I can, busy now with home chores, proofing the bread so have a little time ;-).








Posted By: LRF Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/24/12 07:44 PM
Michael and all, hope you are having the holidays you are planning for.

Interesting, wonder how well the design held up over multiple mounts and dismounts. Everyone knows the weakness of the takedown concept. An interrupted thread design would be a little more "wow" factor for quarter turn mounting. The notch in the barrel shank, on the underside, is that for a spanner? Is the ring a separate part that is also threaded and could be used to tight the fit. Is that a set screw in the side of the ring?

Very nice wood metal fit around release tang. Checkering (pointing up) a bit weak in the tight spots.

Thank you Michael & Dan for taking the time from this busy time of year to share!
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/25/12 12:47 AM
The ring has a couple of holes for a spanner wrench. If there is any loosens the ring can be tightened. Most of these wrenches have been lost to time or the tool box. This would not change headspace or move the rotation of the barrel, just a jam nut arrangement against the receiver. I have no wrench and my rifle is very tight when together.

Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/25/12 12:51 AM
Some of the Worthen rifles were equipped with both front and rear (Lyman 48) sight protectors made from brass and leather. Away from the rifle they would be hard to recognize exactly what they were for.

Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/25/12 01:01 AM
Another peek at the scrapbook.

Posted By: LRF Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/25/12 01:34 AM
Thanks for the explaination, basically what I was thinking. Well thought out wear compensation and a good idea to put in the "future project ideas" folder.

Thanks for sharing.

The sight protectors, most interesting, I can certain see why a lot of them disappeared into the trash because few would know what they are, as you indicated

Thanks
Posted By: Carpetsahib Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/25/12 04:03 AM
I have a couple of questions:
1. Any idea as to the date of the advertisements?
2. Was B.H. Worthen from South Carolina? I'm interested because I had a cousin named Herbert C. Worthen, born in 1877 in Shelby, NC. He was head of the Southern Branch of Western Union in Atlanta until his death in the 1930s (or so).
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/25/12 06:42 PM
Originally Posted By: Carpetsahib
I have a couple of questions:
1. Any idea as to the date of the advertisements?
2. Was B.H. Worthen from South Carolina? I'm interested because I had a cousin named Herbert C. Worthen, born in 1877 in Shelby, NC. He was head of the Southern Branch of Western Union in Atlanta until his death in the 1930s (or so).


I don't know the dates on the ads. I'll have to start a time-line for all the new information that's coming in.

Here is what I have written to date on Mr. Worthen.


Barney Worthen: (2000 PS)

Barney Worthen of San Francisco, California is a good example of a regional gunmaker who never had a national following. Bernard H. Worthen was born in Marion County, Illinois in 1868. By the late 1890's he was living in Charleston, South Carolina. Worthen was a well known trap shooter. His name is found as a participant in several national matches in the 1890's finishing many times in the top few shooters if not in first place. In 1914 E.C. Crossman recommended Worthen to make custom sporting rifles who was then located in Sacramento, California. By 1921 Townsend Whelen recommended Worthen to people on the West Coast as a skilled gunmaker who could do a nice job of converting the Springfield to a sporter. At this time Whelen shows Worthen’s address as San Francisco and places him at the Ellery Arms Company. Ellery Arms Company was a large sporting goods store located at 583-585 Market St. I learned that Worthen was a skilled machinist and also did a lot of work for the nearby King Gunsight Company.

Over the years I have handled four or five Worthens and looked at pictures and information on another four or so. All were on the Springfield action in caliber .30-06, .22 Hornet or .22 Long Rifle. More than half of the Worthens I know about are take-downs. A few of the gunmakers made a takedown rifle; I have seen them made by Adolph and Niedner but It would seem that the takedown was worthen’s specialty. He did a great job on the takedown conversion, using a full, not interrupted thread with a jam nut against the receiver and a tapered pin to center the forearm. The pictured Worthen take-down has a label made for display, to the best of my knowledge Worthen had no trade label.

One problem with the 1903 Springfield is if the gun is cocked and the safety is off and for any reason the bolt handle is partially lifted, the tension on the firing pin spring would be relieved and the firing pin would not hit with enough force to discharge the primer. This very thing happened to Hosea Serber in 1933 on Afognak Island, Alaska. Holding his rifle in his left hand with the safety off while trying to take a picture a Kodiak bear with his right hand he was attacked by the bear. Somehow the bolt handle had been raised and when Serber pulled the trigger all he got was, in his words a “snick”. Knowing immediately what had happened he chambered a new round and killed the bear.

Barney Worthen supplied many of his rifles with a solution to fix this problem. What he did was install a small spring-loaded pin with a rounded nose in the forward part of the rear safety lug on the bolt. A corresponding small indent in the back of the extractor receives the pin when the bolt is fully closed. This helps keep the bolt locked in the closed position. Another identifiable Worthen touch found on many of his stocks is a very thin grip. In order to make it this way he inletted the trigger guard group enough so he had to shorten the trigger.
I have always thought highly of Worthen’s work but my outlook rose to new heights last year when a friend showed me the pictured non-takedown Springfield-Worthen. This rifle was made for a prominent San Francisco gentleman and the workmanship is superb.


Bernard H. (Barney) Worthen:
I wrote about Barney Worthen in the August, 2000 PS and since that time I have received information on many of his rifles and have examined first-hand a few as well. I’m impressed with his work. The more I see the more I like what he did with both the metal and wood. Barney Worthen was born in Illinois on April 12th, 1867 and died in San Francisco January 27th, 1940. I was able to learn Barney was working in Charleston, South Carolina in 1900 at a business called Worthen Arms Company. By 1910 he is listed in the census as a gunmaker in Sacramento, California at a sporting good company. Sometime before 1917 he relocated to Ellery Arms Company, San Francisco and was living at 529 Mission Street, San Rafael. All the Worthen custom rifles I know about are marked with the San Francisco address.

On every single rifle I have information about each has a horn grip cap with an empty oval in the center. On one rifle the old dry glue can still be seen, so whatever type of glue he used, over time it let go. During my search for Worthen information I ran across the following information in the August 15th, 1920 Arms and the Man magazine.

“Description of Springfield Sporter Converted by Barney H. Worthen”
“This is a Springfield Sporter remodeled by Barney H. Worthen for Commander S.C. Barber, U.S.N.
The stock is of selected Circassian walnut- a piece of excellent grain- with dull London oil finish, Whelen pattern cheek piece, and thick, well curved pistol grip fairly close to guard. The neat horn cap on the pistol grip holds an oval silver plate for monogram.”

The author then goes on to describe the rifle in detail. So there it was. They had an oval silver insert. I made a tracing of the empty cap and sent it to a friend who does silver work. He cut out a replacement plate a little oversized which I then fitted and attached using epoxy. I have no way of knowing what the future holds for this rifle but I can you tell you the silver oval will not be falling out of this rifle.

Worthen sporters are marked in a single line on the top of the barrel, early markings are engraved “Barney H. Worthen San Francisco”. Later he used a stamp “Made By Barney H. Worthen San Francisco”.

Every person I have talked with who has a Worthen rifle thinks the world of it and I must agree. Barney Worthen was a fine workman and one of his rifles would be a welcome addition to anyone’s gun rack.
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/26/12 06:48 PM
Back at the computer, have I forgotten to answer any questions regarding Mr. Worthen?
Posted By: Carpetsahib Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/26/12 06:53 PM
Originally Posted By: Michael Petrov
Back at the computer, have I forgotten to answer any questions regarding Mr. Worthen?

Good so far. Thanks for your efforts.
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/28/12 02:36 AM
Regarding the triggers on the Barney Worthens I check both mine to make sure before I said anything.

Both no longer have the two-stage trigger and they are around 3-4 pounds now.
Posted By: eightbore Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/28/12 01:28 PM
One question was not answered, Michael. Does anyone know who was able to purchase the Worthen rifles that Steve Barnett advertised a while back? Bill Murphy
Posted By: Ryan McNabb Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/28/12 05:38 PM
So Michael - I suppose he typically used military front sights? And the apparently mechanical trigger in the pic above - is that some sort of set trigger or is it just grooved or something?

Thanks
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/28/12 08:45 PM
I've not had my Worthen apart in over twenty years so forget how he modified the trigger.

Most of the Worthen rifles I have seen have a non-banded ramp front sight.

Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/28/12 08:49 PM
Regarding bolt action take-downs I have seen them by,

Fred Adolph
August Pachmayr
Barney Worthen
Griffin & Howe
Hoffman Arms Co.
Niedner

I'm sure there are others but these are the ones I can think of now. Most seem to be made on the 1903 but I have seen several made on Mauser actions as well.
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/28/12 08:52 PM
A Hoffman Arms Company Take-down.

Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/28/12 10:16 PM
Originally Posted By: eightbore
One question was not answered, Michael. Does anyone know who was able to purchase the Worthen rifles that Steve Barnett advertised a while back? Bill Murphy


Sorry I have no idea I have had my Worthens for many years.
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/28/12 10:33 PM
This is about the non-take down rifle pictured above.

I have written these people several times and have never received an answer. I remember they were going through a renovation and I have not tried in a few years.

Anyone have a key to unlocking this place?

California Academy of Sciences
875 Howard Street
San Francisco, CA 94103-3009

December 26, 2004

Dear Sir:

On December 7, 2004 in the Bonhams & Butterfields antique arms & armor auction there were two sporting rifles for sale. Both rifles were listed as having been the property of the California Academy of Sciences.
Lot No. 2449 Rifle serial number 133474
Lot No. 2450 Rifle serial number 471837
I was the successful bidder on both lots and am trying to learn the history of the two rifles.

Anything that you can share with me would be a big help. Rifle No. 471837 was customized by San Francisco gunsmith Barney Worthen. The other rifle has some things about it to suggest the two rifles were original owned by the same person. I have spent years trying to preserve the history of the American custom gunmaker and would love to know the history of these two rifles.

Regards,

Michael Petrov


When I got the catalog for this auction I look at the Worthen rifle but the description said nothing about Worthen. Just a low-numbered 1903 that should not be shot ;-).

On the day of the auction preview I called Ron Peterson who I was sure would be there. He answered his phone just as he was walking into the auction house. I gave him the lot number and a few minutes later he said it was marked "Barney Worthen" plain as day on the barrel.
Posted By: Michael Petrov Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 12/29/12 07:06 PM
The trigger on Dan's Worthen.

Posted By: gasgunner Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 03/10/15 06:50 PM
Since we are discussing Barney Worthen, I thought I'd pull this old thread up to help refresh our memory.

John
Posted By: Bob Saathoff Re: Revisiting Barney Worthen - 06/08/16 09:01 PM
For those that might have an interest!

http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100709540
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