I recently sold my first gun on the internet...a Stevens 311 that I had no further use for. In the description I included "No sales to CA" in light of the recent discussion here on that states recent requirement for a verification number.
Naturally, the buyer didn't read the description and resides in CA.
After further researching their laws it appears that as an unlicensed individual (eg. NOT an FFL)I would be allowed to ship this gun to a CA FFL without the verification approval number.
Would it be wise for me to request something in writing from the buyer's FFL that they will accept shipment from me?
PS...I am starting to understand the woes of internet selling a little better now, having always been a buyer in the past.
It seems to me that would be the responsibility of the buyer, to assure you the CA FFL would be OK with it.
I am in CA and just completed an internet transaction, on a gun purchased on this BBS. Seller was an out-of-state private party/non-FFL, and the sale went through without a hitch. Picked up the gun today from my FFL.
The verification # requirement is for transfers between FFL's. If the seller is non FFL/private party the gun is shipped to a CA FFL and then transferred to the buyer.
The new CA law only applys to shipments between two FFLs (and then excludes 03 and 06 FFLs from it). It does apply to FFL to FFL (dealer) transfers within the state of CA,,even to 'face to face' transfers between them such as at gunshows.
I have bought many guns and had them shipped into California. No sweat if the seller is not an FFL. The gun must be shipped to an FFL but the shipper/seller can send it directly with no issues. It does not need to be shipped from an FFL. Jake
I have been following an auction for several weeks. I would bid on the gun, but the seller (an 01 dealer) states "no sales to California". The gun is an antique, so there is no license required to ship anywhere in the U.S. If dealers are uninformed or too lazy to know or learn the rules that govern their business/livelyhood, then they are the ones who will lose a sale. Admittedly, some of California's gun laws (and I'm certainly not defending them) are a PITA and even unconstitutional, but it's not rocket science to comply with them.
that's probably true of "dealers" but not everyone selling guns on gunbroker is a "dealer". some of us are just people getting rid of the odd gun for whatever reason. gunbroker exists for my convenience and trying to decipher the vagueries of some state law, the infringement of which could cause dire consequences is way beyond convenient for me. i always put in my ads "no sales to CA under any circumstances". i don't care what i legally can and can't do. it's not worth my time trying to figure it out to sell 6 guns a year. there's 49 other states.
whether ebay or gunbroker, buyers always seem to assume the seller is a business and that's their livelihood.
roger
Are there any special proceedures required if non- licensed individual is selling a handgun rather than a shotgun? Is it OK to simply send handgun to FFL in other state and let him finalize sale to buyer. Will UPS or USPS ship a handgun under those circumstances?
Roger - that's why I qualified my post by stating the auction I was following was an 01 dealer. You are certainly free to sell or not sell to anyone based on where they live, or based on the color of their eyes for that matter. This is still a partially free country. It amazes me that laws in some areas of New York are much more restrictive than California, but rarely do I see anyone restrict sales to New York. For that matter, there are many state, county and city laws that can make the shipping of a some firearms there illegal. Unfortunately, the laws governing firearms in this country are a hodgepodge of federal, state, county and city laws, many overlapping. Because of that, I suggest anyone, dealer or not, shipping a firearm anywhere familiarize himself/herself with the laws of that state, county and city, as well as federal laws. To do otherwise is inviting a problem, no matter how innocent the error.
The receiving FFL knows what he can and cannot do. Why not just ask, and quit playing into the hands of the nutball politicians in CA and elsewhere? You are letting them take away your freedom. It's creeping incrementalism.
Replacement - that's my point, but the ad I'm following doesn't say "California sales to FFL dealers only". So again, if you're shipping to a class 01 or 03 dealer, what's the problem?...........Unless you're shipping to a dealer that's as uninformed about the laws as many seem to be.
The receiving CA FFL's don't seem to have much trouble deciphering the regs on their end. Many choose not to do transfers because it's gotten to be just too much trouble to comply. The problem with understanding the regs seems to be generally on the shipper's end. That was my point: just ask the receiving FFL.
I suspect that a lot of the reluctance to sell to California residents amounts to a passive demonstration of disgust at the State's voters for allowing their lawmakers to enact such silly legislation in the first place. Refusing to sell to Californians may just get them mad enough to do something about their representation out there...Geo
Replacement - So again, if you're shipping to a class 01 or 03 dealer, what's the problem
First off an 03 is not a dealer. An 03 is a collector and if the item qualifies as a C&R except for a handgun can be shipped to the holder.
CA all handguns C&R or not must go through an 01/07 license.
The new CA regs is no more than a FFL EZ check and no big deal.
My corp. holds a 07 manufacture license and at first we were thinking not shipping to CA anymore, but after talking with several of our big customers decided not to abandon them.
Signing on to the new CA system was a breeze and getting the CA proceed # and letter takes seconds. In fact their system is better than the BATFE FFL EZ check.
George, many of us in this state do not agree with the politicians elected here. This state used to be somewhat conservative at the least moderate but due to emigrants and im igrants this state has turned dramatically left.
George - unfortunately, the demonstration of disgust strikes at the very residents who are also fed up with the gun laws here - sort of like preaching to the choir. And the no shipping to California certainly won't do anything to help bolster the number of pro gun folks here. In fact, if I were an enthusiastic first time purchaser, my enthusiam might be dampened a little by the "no sales to California" attitude. We need more gun owners in California, not less, if we want to have an effect on the lawmakers. A minority cannot force change, no matter how badly they want it. Now if automakers refused to ship to California.....................................
UPDATE...Turns out I should have waited a bit before my post on this subject...turns out the buyer is a class 01 CA dealer and is more than happy to accept a gun from an unlicensed individual without the verification approval number.
I will be shipping him the gun pending receipt of funds.
My apologies for the confusion as a first time cautious seller.