Hello, I'm new here but have been reading and enjoying this site for some time. I have always had a likeing for old doubles and own several. I now have a question. Some old SXS breech loading rifled guns in the black powder era were made to shoot round balls loaded in cartridges. I have never heard discussions about the rifling twist or depth of grooves, width of lands etc. Any one knowledgerable about this??? Thanks, Ed

Ed the two 12 bores that I have owned have had grooves that seemed 3/8" wide and about .003 deep. Wide and shallow seems to have been the rule. The rifling in one was straight for the first 20" of the 28" barrels before starting a very slow twist. So slow that when I first looked at it I thought the rifling was straight the whole way. The second had a twist rate of about 1 in 72". The 16 bore combination that I owned had the wide and shallow rifling but was straight the whole way down.

I just looked at some pictures I have of the muzzels of my [new to me] Purdey 10 bore which the factory letter says was made for ball. There are 12 lands and grooves, the grooves look to be 2X the width of the lands, and are fairly deep [.005 or so]. The rifle was made in 1896. As I remember, the twist is about 1 turn in 30-36 inches and uniform. My preliminary shooting with it is very encouraging with 5" 50 yard groups.
All the best, Mal

I have two 10 gauge rifles, one an E M Reilly double with Jones action, the other an Alex Henry falling block. Both are round ball rifles with approximately 1 in 125" twist (very slightly less than 1/4 turn in 30").

Ed-

This is the business end of one of my two 16 bore double rifles.
The grooves are about .008" deep.
The lands of my other 16b double rifle are a bit narrower.
I've seen very thin lands, I've seen henry rifling, I've seen really deep grooves, I've also seen 'invisible' rifling -- essentially parabolic 'smooth' rifling.
One of my rifles has a roughly 40" twist rate, the other one is slower.
Both of them shoot roundball quite well.


--Tinker

I believe that it was Holland & Holland that developed the Paradox system of rifling double & single "round ball" guns. I have a couple H&K Fabarm (Brescia) O&U guns with one barrel Paradox rifled. They fire a slug very accurately.

Best Regards, George

Tinker:

Is that a bayonet mount on that rifle?

R40x-

Yes that is a bayonet lug on my double rifle.
It was likely built for a wild boar hunter.
The proper bayonet for it is a short hunting sword.

I offer images of this rifle to anyone who claims that there is no sporting use for a bayonet on a hunting rifle or shotgun.


--Tinker