I'm about to load up some bp hunting loads for the 16. In the past, I have lubed my fiber cushion wad (circle fly) in part to deal fouling issues, but also to minimize smoldering wads that may cause grass fires.

Do any of you who shoot real bp in shotguns for upland birds (esp pheasant or quail) worry about fire issues?

Brent

First, are you talking about cartridges or muzzleloading? If you're talking about muzzle loaders, you can eliminate the "cushion" wad. Just damp wipe after each shot and use only the over powder wad and the over shot card. If you use anything greasy on the wads, you're more likely to have smoldering than if there is nothing on them. Lubing the "cushion" wad with something containing mostly water will kill smoldering but I don't think you'd want water in cartridges. The so-called cushion wad is mainly useful as a filler or a cleaner in ML shooting. It won't do anything else for you. If you're talking about cartridges, use the wad column (dry) you need to fill the shell. Spray the bores frequently with "moose milk" or your favorite concoction containing mostly water. This will minimize fouling.

This is a 16 gauge William Evan's cartridge gun.

Brent

sorry to Hijack but this moose milk what is the go with it spray the bore than shoot it out?

Some guys that shoot black powder cartridges believes it helps to spray your barrels with a few squirts of water or mOOse milk...lets say between stations on a Skeet Field.

About the most I've seen it dO is make your SxS drip nasty black water on the tOe of your shoe...

Spraying water or whatever down the bore is great for cleaning. But it's impractical in the field so far as I'm concerned. I clean my guns at the truck but not in the cattails.

So, anyway, it appears there is not much experience with the question I posed.

Sorry I wasted so much of my time answering your unclear question! The lack of experience is evident but you're confused about who is lacking.
Usual negative comment from Hopeless Joe, no surprise there.

Jim,
Sorry to up-end you so early in the day. Spraying water is not practical. Lubed fiber wads do not flash as quickly as unlubed wads - though they are not fire resistant per se, and fire is a real problem some years, not others.

I have been shooting bp cartridges for many years. That does not mean I know it all - hence my question.

Let's hope your day improves.

Brent

Lack of experience...

I shoot every Wednesday with one of the most distinguished black powder shooters in America....

I borrow from his experience....

Jim...Only thing negative in my post was that I didn't agree with yOu.

First, if Jim Legg has a suggestion, I'd believe it. Second, there's not much chance of a fire from wads. You see that problem when a muzzle loading patched round ball is patched too loose and there is blow by, thus setting the patch to smottering [ burning ]. Third, how many shots do you take hunting where fouling will be a problem ? Fourth, if someone doesn't agree with another, would it be too much to ask that you give a polite reply ? So, from my hunting experience with BP [ 37 years ], I don't worry about fires, or cleaning till I get home. Paul

Bladesmith one thing I've learned in life is no one knows everything....If you're talking about me...my post was not intended to be "impolite".

Jim calling people pet names is "impolite"....I also hope his day improves.

Jim may be a curmudgeon but he is also one of the most experienced blackpowder cartridge shooters you are ever going to meet.

I have spent a couple of seasons shooting blackpowder cartridges at pheasant in South Dakota and at ducks in Utah (w/ bismuth).

Briefly I was using lubed wads but it was just a PITA for no perceived gain. I have shot a bunch of blackpowder skeet (but nowhere near as much as Jim) over a field that had grass as dry as parchment. After as many as 100 rounds with every wad landing in this dry tinder there was never so much as a wisp of smoke or fire.

I have taken a small spray bottle of water with me in the field a couple of times in South Dakota when the birds were really flying. Did it make much of difference to squirt some water down the barrels while stopped for taking pictures,etc.? Probably not, but it didn't hurt anything. The bottle is easy to carry in your vest.

Homeless, I wasn't picking on you . I was just suggesting that everyone try to keep their comments polite. Sometimes things sound different than what was intended because you're not talking face to face. I used to get on here quite a bit , but have been busy for a while. Now I come back and it seems like there's a lot of people bad mouthing each other. Maybe some need to forget past problems and go on. I always sit back and read any reply I intend to make to see if it would offend anyone. Many times I rewrite it. I just think it's more enjoyable when everyone gets along. JMHO Paul

Why is it a PITA? I do not find that to be so.

I do it mostly because it's easy and seems to reduce the likelyhood of fire. At least one fire was started last year by a muzzleloader in Oregon and I have seen smoldering wads on the range where only the shortness and greenness of the mowed grass prevented a fire from starting.

I can stop for time to time at the truck to unload birds, water dogs and human, and even water guns. I usually run a patch then so I don't have water running back into the locks.

Thanks,
Brent

Better load some smokeless powder.

My BP cartridge hunting loads are usually made with nitro cards and old Felton Blue Streak wads with waxed edges. These are a very hard felt. I usually do not shoot enough rounds to worry about fouling.

I shoot a lot BP skeet with nitro cards and plain Celotex wads and do not remember any smoking wads laying on the field. I supposed it could happen. If I am shooting a lot of BP skeet I will spray water down the barrels to soften the fouling and cool the barrels.

For muzzle loading skeet I use soft felt wads soaked it moose milk because I will be shooting a lot an I will be shooting rather quickly after loading.

For ML hunting I use peanut oil on Celotex wdas or as mentioned, I will not use any cushion wad which tends to tighten the pattern.

Good Luck.

Using cattails to clean the barrels is a great idea that had never occured to me! Thanks! David

I don't lube the wads as I have found that the fouling is not that big of a deal. Water in a bottle on the range and usually shooting in the field isn't high enough volume to make a difference.

With two small children and traveling for work, loading time is tight. To use lubed wads I use up most of that time melting lube, dipping the wads and putting them in an appropriate container. I could load up a bunch of ammo in that time. I also tend to load more than I plan on shooting at the time and the lube will soak through paper cases and get into the powder (in theory anyway) and I may have it on the shelf for months before I use it.

I did recently buy a bunch of Blue Streak wads from Jim Legg so my loads may change but not to lubed wads.

Until recently I cut all my own wads except the overpowder wads. A nice guy on this site made me some slick wad cutters that work in a drill press and I have ready access to big sheets of felt.

Mike, I can lube wads easily and quickly but it is one more thing to do. Cutting wads would probably take longer - at least for me,

These Blue Streak wads get a couple of votes and sound like a real good posibility and I forgot about the felt ox yoke style wads. Those would be pricey if I bought them precut. But they would solve the hunting/fire issue or at least assist in minimizing the problem.

Good ideas, thanks.

Brent

I simply use 3/32" card, 1/4" lubed felt (50:50 beeswax and olive oil) and another card between powder and shot. I punch them all myself (really wonderful therapy sitting at the chopping block in the woodshed, mallet and punch in hand...!). The wads are too short a time in the barrel to ignite, and my theory is that the grease is squeezed onto the barrel walls while going up the bore; it also seals the powder charge from moisture in storage with the card as a buffer against powder contamination. I've never had any fire issues, but desist from using them on the 37C+ (about 110F, I think), hot northerly wind, fire-ban days too.
RG

It is very time consuming.

I travel a lot for work (as an industrial mechanic)and keep the felt and cutters in my work vehicle. At the end of most work days I can find a drill press (I don't have one at home) at my customer sites. With permission I'll spend an hour or so after the end of the work day and crank them out. With the spinning cutter I can crank them out very fast. Then when home at the loading bench I am ready to go.

Although I prolly have less than 500 BP loads out the tubes...I have never had a card or fiber filler smoking on the grass or marsh. Recovered card wads show no sign of torching....fiber fillers dissapear in a confetti shower and natural felts under the shot show shot dimples but no charring?

Would be more worried about coarser powders in lighter loads showering embers, no?

Best,
Mark

lol...Mark I've never saw anything but confetti either.

These guys finding burning wAds must be shooting some squib loads.

Is 70 grains of Swiss 2f a squib load in a 16?

120 gr of Swiss 1.5 in a 10 bore?

Brent

Here is my last word on this thread(I promise). After reading and rereading these posts it appears to me you(Brent) are more interested in arguing than in getting answers to your question. With the utmost respect and civility intended,
Jim Legg

Nothing for you, Joe. Return to camp.

"With the utmost respect and civility" I disagree.

Brent

Brent, don't think I'd say "squibb" outright, but those could be "flamers" MAYBE if your wad column is not sealing properly....overbore?....weak nitro card?...long forcing cone?.....hulls shorter than chamber?.......thin plastic hulls?

Would not worry about weak crimps, would not contribute to blow-by and torching wads?

Just a thought,
Mark

Mark - it is a good suggestion. I think it's not a problem BUT I don't know for sure. How would I know? How does one diagnose this. In the hull (win AA), the wads are very tight and snug.

Hulls are cut to match chambers (2 9/16) in the 16, 2.75 in the Cashmore 12. The ten uses brass hulls from RCM and are cut to length also. So, I think that they fit will.

I diagnose blow by on muzzleloaders and rifles easily but on shotties, I have no clue. Any suggestions?

Brent

Brent,

There is simple and ancient test for blowby in cartridge shotguns with card and fiber wads. Take the combined fiber and card wads (you are actually using) and shove them down the bores from chamber, using a cleaning rod. IF they are hard to shove down the bore (especially if very hard), they probably seal nicely. IF they slide down easily (especially if really easy), they are very likely not going to seal.

One can also do some pattern testing with the overpowder card and fiber cushion wad loaded over a plastic sealing wad -- cut from base of a one-peice plastic wad or use one of the separate plastic sealer wads. IF you were getting blown patterns with the card and fiber wads alone but, get much better patterns with the plastic sealer wad under them, you have your answer.

I am always leary of old doubles having the bores reamed to remove pitts. Can/will really ruin them for loads using card and fiber wads. I have two such old guns that give pretty useless thin and patchy patterns with card and fiber wads, but, good to excellent patterns with one-peice plastic wads.

How well card and fiber wads fit into a case is not the important criterion for blowby. Sometimes one can go to thin brass hulls and the oversized wads they require to improve patterns.

Niklas

Wads may be tight and snug in a hull, but they must be tight and snug in the bore to avoid blow by. AA cases tend to have fairly thick walls, and so smaller internal diameter; wads that fit a AA case snugly may not be very snug in the bore. I personally use reiffenhauser style cases because they are thin-walled and have a greater capacity for bulky BP; AAs have a fairly small capacity at the powder end. Oversize wads still have enough give in them that they ought not increase pressures much. How much do you manage to fit in a AA hull? the times I've tried I couldn't get much, and had to use a short wad column.

Diagnosing blow-by? velocities would give clues; recovered wads may too.
RG

Over powder wads are very tight in the muzzles. Did not think to check the breech for some reason.

Bed time for me though. I'll look at this again.

I have tried to get velocities over my chrony but have never been very successful with my shotguns.

Brent