Hi all,

I'm looking to get my first really nice gun and don't have experience negotiating with dealers at this level, I could use a bit of help on how to approach this.

If they're listing a (used) gun for $25k, what's a good price to float them initially, and what would you expect to pay at the end of it all? I just read an article by Diggory Hadoke where he mentioned that fine guns can sometimes sell for half of their initial asking price which got me wondering if I've been going about this all wrong.

Advice is much appreciated.
Kip

Many if not most of the guns you're looking at are being sold on consignment. The willingness to negotiate is likely affected by the actual owner's sentiments as given to the dealer. How long the gun has been on the market is likely a factor among other things. Never hurts to give the owner a chance to say "no" as he has a desire to have cash instead of that gun.
I bought a nice English gun a year ago that I knew had been on the market for over a year. I made an offer at about 89% of the asking the price and bought it at 90%.

Pm sent

Three rules I try to live by.

Do your homework and know the approximate current market value for what you're interested in.

Never make an offer you're uncomfortable with and be prepared to make good on your offer.

Don't get caught-up emotionally in the heat of the moment and pay more than you think the gun is worth to you. There's always another one around the corner if you keep looking.

No, there is not. I’ll provide one example: our fellow member here, Stan Hillis, has an L. C. Smith he bought at the Fall Southern SxS in Georgetown, SC years ago (where he and I first met and formed our great friendship). It is a mint Field Grade 16 ga. with 32” barrels choked tight, ejectors, and Hunter One trigger. Go find another one.
JR

And that is other half of the equation, when you have found what you are looking for, make your move.

There are some gundealers who won't budge a dime off listings. As has been pointed out, some guns sold by dealers are on consignment and unless they are willing to take a cut of commission without leaving a net to the seller being the same amount if sold at full price, they have no authority to lower the "ask". Dealer who actually own guns are more inclined to move some. Individuals selling guns who aren't in the business will often move off the asking. There are "tells". An individual who states the price is his "asking" price is hinting that he is open to negotiation. "Firm" means "firm", but there is no penalty for counteroffering. Worse thing seller can do in that instance is say "no". "Firm" offers by non-dealers will often loosen up over time. If you do a "wouldja take" counteroffer, you better mean it if accepted. Anyone who feels insulted at an offer being too low is blowing smoke if they say negotiation is over because of the low offer. Do not ever bid against yourself. A buddy who was in law school sold cars during summer break while numbskulls such as me worked construction. His sales manager gave the following advice: "Tell the potential customer what the sales price is. Never say there might be movement. Make the offer and shut up. If you feel compelled to say something again, stare at the point of your pencil and keep your mouth shut." Same advice applies to a buyer. Gil

I spent 20 years looking for an original Winchester leather case for my British service A5 scope.

Then 3 turned up within a couple of years, almost like buses.

The first was like an Airfix kit and was in bits having lost all its stitches.

Fortunately before I got round to sewing it up, a much better one turned up.

Then finally a really nice example with elevation instructions in the lid came my way.

The good news is that I was able to pass the first two on to happy purchasers for what I had paid for each, and none of them cost as much as the £250 I was quoted, some years back, for a modern hand sewn reproduction.

Know your gun, know the market. Go past the market if you want but understand you might never get your money back, so that purchase will be for lifetime not until you decide to sell it for something else. If you want to try buying at a lower price a reasonable offer hurts nobody. If they say no then you can always try later or just move on. I know some guns are not easy to find another example of but none are required for me to stay alive. I pass on ten times many bad gun decisions than I pass on good ones.

The exception doesn't prove the rule. And your comments are more germane to collectors (where I would somewhat agree with you), rather than shooters.

i am reminded of a high school friend's, father's advice....sam said that in any business transaction completed without two "no deals"....you either paid too much, or sold too cheap.

one of many reasons that face-to-face transactions are preferable to auctions, etc....ymmv.

best regards,

tom

Dogon said “there’s always another one around the corner” was my disagreement, Cb. There is no “rule” to prove, exceptions or none. And Stan is a shooter.
JR

Depending on the gun it can be difficult to determine the market. I’m looking at a mint Beretta 451 EELL and there are very few of them out there to gauge value. Sometimes you just have to hold your nose and jump on in if you want it bad enough

JMHO
Once you tell the seller that you are negotiating, you're not.
LOL

Most things can be negotiated (assuming it's not an uncommon item), but...the Stan example is a good one. Sometimes there really is only one that will ever cross your path. The key is knowing that.

John Roberts' example above on Stan's Elsie Field Grade is a case of a gun with a very unusual combination of features: 32" barrels, single trigger, 16ga, really nice condition. All of those combined = price increase. Not sure I've seen it mentioned here, but since we're talking British guns specifically:

Right now the market on British 12's is relatively soft. Relative to the smaller bore guns. The Brits made a lot more 12's than anything else. Smaller bores are in greater demand compared to the available supply. Which can make small bores look expensive in comparison and/or 12s very good buys. Take your pick. If barrels shorter than 28" work for you, then guns with 25" or 26" guns (especially 12's) can be really good buys. Not all that long ago, there was more interest in guns with the 25" "Churchill" barrels. That fad has faded.

Delete. Double post.

Gun types go up and down in prices as interest goes up and down. Ten years ago really nice hammer guns were dogs to sell. Now a nice hammer gun will get a lot of interest. Short barrels are not easy to sell but some pairs with 25-26-27” do make decent money. Quality always has a market. But I see a lot of really nice box locks going for very little money. Extractor guns seem as scrap in box locks with ejectors only slightly better.

I break guns down into price ranges of less than $1,000 which will get you any number of very good box locks, $1,000-5,000 which will get you a tired side lock with a name, a decent pair with no name or a very nice side lock with a decent name. $5,000-20,000 will get you into guns with minor issues to perfect working, name guns. Above that you are getting into real money guns and each needs to be examined on a case by case basis. I recently passed on a gun with a $4,000 asking price because it has beef poorly restored, refinished, restocked and in general ruined. At any level it is buyer beware, now more than ever as any number of collections are being liquidated. And it never hurts to make an offer. My college roommate made offers every day until he got a yes. Sometimes he asked five and sometimes it would be many times five but he was funny and polite and never let no bother him.

Once I looked that gun over I immediately realized I was looking at a gun without many peers, as a late season dove gun, and because of the rarity of the options on a Field grade Elsie. When I looked at the hang tag and saw it was completed on my birthday I think I let out a low "Oh, no". The owner asked what was wrong. I gave up any hope of bargaining when I told him the gun was completed on my birthday, though years earlier. Had I been a savvy gun trader I would've never let on. Because I let the cat out of the bag the hope of negotiating was gone with the wind. I was able to work a trade with the owner so I didn't have to pay full asking price. Ab-so-lute-ly no regrets.



Collector? ....... nah. Shooter? ....... yeah.

Stan, that gun looks to be a fine collector of late season dove. The person who ordered that gun had unique and good taste.