Hoping for some opinions as to the origins of this nominal Edgar Perks. Gun in question is an SLE with chopper lump barrels and good wood. Edgar Perks is inscribed on the rib, but not on the action, which usually denotes a trade made gun. However, there are no marks on the locks or elsewhere on the gun that suggest origins with one of the larger trade makers. There are no patent marks on the gun either.

Perks himself was noted as a gunmaker in the 25-54 period during which this gun was originally proved and it still wears the original proof marks. I know many of you also saw the 20 bore Perks made that recently sold at Holt’s and ended up at a dealer immediately at double the price.

I can find no marks on the locks. There are initials of the barrel-maker on the barrel ("TA"), but really nothing else. This doesn’t have a T serial number on the rib like my Holloway-made Leech.
So the question is, did Perks handmake this gun? If not, who did? Not really sure why Perks would order out a gun and not put his name on it either as his name carried little weight.

That is a nice looking gun. I had to read the maker,twice, as I thought it was like mine. I have a Thomas W. Perkes.

Are there any marks on the barrels/rib under the forend.?

Not much going on under the barrels:

Can you let us have a photo of the front of the knuckle to show how the extractor cam is attached?

I have a somewhat similar gun by W.C. Carswell Ltd of Liverpool built as far as I can tell between 1943 and 1949. Does yours have any sign of a Birmingham viewers date stamp?

Parabola, here you go:

Same method of fitting extractor cam as mine.

Possibly same maker? Anyone know who TA was?

Parabola, does yours have chopper lump barrels like mine does by any chance?

Dan,

Yes it has chopper lump barrels, and is also stocked to the fences.

If yours does not have a Birmingham viewers date stamp (in abeyance 1942 to 1950) yours probably also went to Proof 1943 to 1949 possibly using a pre-war action .

Interesting, where is the viewers date stamp located on your gun? That is normally forward of the flats between the flats and the loop, right?

Mine hasn’t got one, but it is usually stamped on the barrel flats close to the rest of the Proof marks. Crossed sceptres with coded letters and numbers.



As seen (upside down) in top right hand corner of flat at top of this picture.

Thanks, Parabola. I didn't realize mine was "missing."

So, going by your previous post about "Birmingham viewers date stamp (in abeyance 1942 to 1950) yours probably also went to Proof 1943 to 1949," I assuming some of the proof procedural steps were suspended or relaxed during the post-war period? That is very useful information for dating purposes.

Dan,

The private viewers marks were not initially part of the Rules of Proof (I believe they are now). The Birmingham marks, indicating the year code and the grade of the viewer, started in 1922, stopped in 1942 on the retirement or death of the then Proofmaster, and resumed in July 1950.

In the meantime Proof continued exactly as before.

London did not start applying date stamps until 1972, and sensibly used the last 2 digits of the year ( apart from MM for the Millennium year 2000).

Birmingham went over to the last 2 digits of the year in 2006.

Thanks for the explanation! That is all very interesting and good to know.

Parabola, That is an interesting lock-up on the barrels of that sidelock (or is it a boxlock, I can't tell!). A sort of spring-loaded blade added to the front lug. Can you enlighten us as to the Patent and the purpose of the blade? Also it appears that someone struck off the original proof marks...I wonder what circumstances gave rise to erasure of the prior proof marks?

Dan, The Perks is a great find, congrats. I am not well versed in Birmingham made sidelocks but the quality looks to be very high. BTW, the auction Perks listed for sale in Scotland was sold...not immediately, but within a month after posting. No idea of the price.

Owen, it is a cocking hook - First Model Greener Facile Princeps.

At the risk of annoyance to the entire forum, I will refer you to my post “A Cameleopard from E.M. Reilly” just about to re-appear.

Thanks, Owen.

Yes, that other Perks, a 20 bore, was listed for something like 9700 pounds after making 4900 at auction. I expect the selling dealer got close to that given the high original condition.

Owen,

The Reilly has been sleeved. Either the prior Proof marks were struck off when it was Proofed after re-sleeving, or possibly the original barrels had been submitted earlier for re-Proof but failed causing them to be struck off then.

Have a look at the new Holts catalogue.

There is at Lot 1455 a William Ford SLE, stocked to the fences with chopper lump barrels, and the arrangement of lock pins and screws is very similar.

Merry Christmas,

Parabola

Yes, that Ford SLE is similar. After doing some research, I think that lock pattern is just the standard Holland pattern lock. It is the same pattern that I have on my Leech SLE which supposedly has "best quality" lockwork, under Holloway's standards at least...