I saw two stories on Fox News today that indicated that environmentalists are pushing to get lead bullets outlawed in California. Their claim is that the condor population is endangered by eating carrion containing a lead bullet or lead pellets. Therefore, the "solution" is to ban all lead of any kind for hunting of any kind. I'm unclear as to how far this push has progressed, but my impression was that it was being given serious thought for becoming a reality. Anyone in California know more of the details? It seems the new frontier for gun control is steadily shifting away from 2nd Ammendment rights and towards making ammunition impossible to get or use.

I honestly feel sorry for anyone who has to live in the land of fruits and nuts. I haven't see this article but can just imagine a Condor soaring around in the sky looking for expended lead bullets to swallow in order the to ensure its early demise.
BTW: The wackos that forced the closure of the Skeet and Trap club that used to be on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago in that lovely State of Illinois while I was still existing there were wrong. Subsequent tests have shown they were full of you know what. The lead expended over the years had sunk so far in the muck that they were dead wrong on this contamination issue of lake Michigan and that it didn't pose a threat to anything. Of course they accomplished what they really wanted. An embarrasing high visibility gun club is now gone.
Jim

Lincoln Park Gun Club was shut down by the city's hysterical anti-gun mayor, Richie Daley. Contamination of Lake Mich. by lead was just a canard to close down the place. The nit-wit also ordered Meigs Field, an airport off the city's Downtown, torn up to keep ''terrorists'' from flying in, loading up and destroying Chicago. ''I mean, well, I mean, well,Disney World, Mickey Mouse, has a no-fly zone so we in Chicago should have one!!''

This story was on the news a few months ago. The T.V. person was interviewing a Forest Ranger that said that the Condors eat the bullit from a wounded deer and get lead poisining. i would think that a bullit would go through quickly. More likely a Coyote or other scavenger eats the bulllit if they eat it at all.

One would think that a Forest Ranger would be a bit brighter than that. I don't know bird digestive systems but I do know what happened when my brother swollowed a nickel when he was ten. It went through fairly quick. And a womans dog in Wisconsin
ate 800 dollors in paper money and they got 700 of it back the next day.

I am not a Vet and I never played one on T.V. but this is just another ploy to outlaw ammo to get at our guns.

JMHO, Gordon

There may a grain of truth to the condor lead issue, but it is almost certainly going to be with the ingestion of lead shot not bullets. Birds have this gizzard grinding of their food that makes them different from mammals with respect to passing nickels etc. I think most tax payers might be horrified to learn how much money has been spent trying to reestablish the condors. There are probably three employees for each condor out there-monitoring every move the birds make.

We'll be reduced soon to shooting red hots and Pez outta our barrels.
...but then I brought all this up in my anti-lead ban posts.
There are many here who have a taste for the lead shot banning - you might get the full course meal in California.

Add to this the proposed ban on toxic shot for dove hunting on Public Lands in Wisconsin. Another nibble to a complete ban on ANY type of lead ammunition.
The sorry fact is that a number of hunting individuals find this all reasonable and don't realise the direction this all is heading for.-Dick

Day in and day out I recognize this country and what it stood for less and less. Like an ex-WWII vet said about the proposed amendment to ban Flag burnings, "Go ahead and burn it (our Flag, and yes I capitalize the word Flag everytime I talk about our Flag)....... it doesn't mean anything anymore" For someone who sacrificed that much fighting in WWII to say and feel that way is a sad testament to us all because this is only the beginning!!!

It's not the country. The United States is one of the greatest countries in many respects, culturally, economically and militarily, and will remain so for for the forseeable future. As a neighbour, I cringe when citizens down-rate their country because those who do so do not remain for long as members of a great nation.

Everything's changing lickety-split. North America's resources, including wildlife, are being pushed hard. Migrations to our cities are producing anti-gun populations with what I consider an overweening concern for safety and security. We're the little guys now to pick on---and the results are everywhere to see. To keep what we've got we can't make mistakes.

Be assured, however, Americans don't have more dingbats than elsewhere. Our veterans fought when our countries were different places. In many ways our freedoms are stronger, our citizens more aware of their rights and prepared to exercise them. That's the vet's legacy: more commonfolk influence over the capricious forces that always controlled their lives.

The pity is that the wonderful, resourceful people who developed and serviced the agricultural, manufacturing and energy sectors to the envy of the world are now off the open spaces. Canada is hollowed out to a couple dozen urban sprawls. Publics who saw guns as useful are now gathered in great cities taking in each other's wash.

Let's not blame our countries. They are better now in lots of ways. We can only protect our sports by being the most responsible persons on our byways and streets, and by never backing off on the integrity of what we do.

I have only recovered one bullet from big game in 15 years of hunting. The rest passed right on through and are now half way to China. On a intersting note I have a friend that was a Bureau of Indian Affairs administrator. upon visiting the Navajo reservation he could hear two squaws on the local radio channel talking excitingly about something. the only thing he could make out was "Califonia Condor". He asked the driver what the squaws were talking about and her replied, "Recipies for California Condor, They say it tastes better than turkey!" Happy Thanksgiving, Enviro A-Holes!!!

King, I like the old Latin proverb, " My friends need no expalination and for my enemies, no explaination is good enough. I am LDS, Conservative and a Gun Owner. That means I don't have a friend in the world. I gave up long ago trying to find acceptance from people that hate my guts. It'll never happen. If gun owners think they can pacify their eneimes by being good citizens and being submissive, They are DEAD wrong.
-Regards

I didn't mean to infer that I'm for pacifying enemies, I/M. I don't have enemies personally or any that I know of, as most people I know. Some may not like what I do but that hardly makes them enemies in the sense that they are hostile or rude. I'd like to think that active participation over a wide range of community affairs may even earn from them a smidgen of respect. This is not to say, however, that the shooting sports does not have enemies. They do. Then it's like hockey: played to our strengths with passion and elbows up in the corners. There's nothing submissive about that.

...and so it starts!
Welcome to the Pan-American states.

Where Canada's Susan Nattrass won gold for trap at the Pan American Games this week, Lowell, and she's a superb representative of our fraternity to the world.

Other than SoCentral LA, and cash crop areas, were are that many bullets fired-off in California....San Fran....Orange County....West Hollywood?
If the Condors have a taste for lead, they'd starve to death in Golden State.

King,
I think you miss part of the point, it is our right not priviledge to own and use guns. We should not be worried about making a little mistake. Ofcourse the way things are headed who knows. OSHA rules,. anti lead more crap including Michaels Moore's new movie "your mother kills animals" or some such thing are continuing to move the country away from the shooting sports.The one thing that keeps freedom intact as a right, is our ability to keep and bear arms. I am growing weary of the continued assalt on our rights but can't let down my guard or they may be gone. Eventually I think people will grow weary and become removed from the fight and we will be hit when our backs are turned.

Jeff G.

There's no doubt at all that the right to own and use guns is more of an issue there than here, Jeff. When there's any discussion of the issue among gunners here it's not so much a right but what the democratic right of the majority is doing to us.

The reason for the difference---just a guess---is that most gunners hereabouts acknowedge the political realities although the minority Conservative government has promised to get rid of the long-gun registry.

We may agree that even the notion of right in this respect is pretty tenuous when the courts are continually reminding our federal and regional governments what they can and cannot do---and the mishmash of regulations resulting from it.

What I meant by not making mistakes is this: As an activist for 40 years, it's often necessary to introduce new ideas and information to defeat an opponent's strategy. One mistake, one false note, is a dagger through your throat.

We're so far behind the 8-ball we can't afford to make them. I'm not a defeatist on the issue at all but any campaign must begin with an assessment of reality. John Meeker is doing that. How many soldiers have a field marshal's baton in their rucksack?

I get a kick out of reading thoughts on rights. As if a piece of paper gave me any rights. Or another man can grant rights or take away any rights that nature affords me

The idea that an appointed or an elected Man can or can't give rights is the best BS ever.

Now for a people that still struggles with the "Divine Right" myth, it's understandable. Hell, they grew up that way.

For an American to think that way is just a fact that the brainless among us has bought into the big lie, without any thought, what so ever.

I guess those mountain lions must've lost their taste for poodle in CalirOn'i'a.

The next thing will want will be rubber bullets....maybe paint ball guns for hunting.

Those same idiots fail to realize the Condor was saved from intinction because of people like us....not them.