Reading through the other thread on Baker guns I noticed the posters saying an A grade was marked with an A. I purchased a gun at an auction and it was listed as an A grade but there is no A marking on the gun. How do I determine if this is an A grade or another grade?

The early B grades and A grades could have similar engraving; the B had Damascus Twist the A crolle damascus as does your gun (3 Iron "Oxford")

“The Baker Gunner”, 1900
We do not guarantee that every “B” (or “A”) grade gun will be engraved from just the same design, but endeavor to have about the same amount of engraving on each. On receiving an order from a customer we try to select first, one which will fill the specifications as to gauge, weight, length of barrels, drop and length of stock, and then conform to customer's ideas as to engraving, as nearly as possible from guns we may have in stock, but always consider engraving of secondary importance.
You may receive a “B” (or “A”) with a different design of border, or a duck or a dog in place of the two quail or a dog pointing game, we cannot tell as it is our aim to give a variety of designs.

The only two Baker Hammerless guns I've recorded that are grade marked B are 186 and 444. I haven't recorded a gun marked A. Your gun looks to be a nice A to me. Interesting that your gun 408 has a 3-pin lock, while 1756, 1996 --



and 2048 have the "early" 1-pin locks.

Over the years, Baker marked the gun grade for a while, then discontinued, then started up again. I have 524 B and 527A that are marked. Of the approx. 250 A and B grades I recorded years ago, I would say in general there were more B grades than A Grades in the early guns, and maybe more A Grades when numbers got into 4 digits. I did mark in my lists which were A's and which were B's, but did not note if the A or B stamp was on each gun listed. Paragons, for a while were marked P for Paragon , but early on and in the middle, the grade mark was omitted.

Researcher’s eye is good. Tamid’s gun is odd. The etched engraving is common to the 400 and 500 serial range A and B guns, but the lock work is of a later type. I’d guess , like we find with Lefevers, an early serial number gun can have late serial number details. I assume Baker used up what materials they had around in stock, not necessarily trying to strictly follow a serial number sequence. Tamid’s gun is an A Grade and quite nice.

The engraving looks like a.special. Custom order nice gun close to a Paragon, JMHO

I gave my Baker catalogs away, but, I seem to remember there was an R grade that was morphed into the A and B grades. They were all very similar in the catalog.


Best,
Ted

The Baker hammerless guns began with the A and B Grades. They were offered in 10-, 12- and 16-gauges. The R and S Grades appeared about 1905, offered in 12- and 16-gauges, and over the next five years supplanted the A and B Grades. By the 1909 The Baker Gunner the A-Grade was gone and the B-Grade was only offered in 10- and 12-gauges. By the 1911 catalog they are both gone.

Thanks everyone for their information. Its very informative if not still puzzling by not having a definitive answer. Yet this is not the first gun i've asked questions on that has puzzled the double gun forum. I wonder how guns were brought into western Canada in the early years. Could I have made a purchase from a catalogue from the US and have it shipped to me in Canada. Thinking even in those early years there were import restrictions , duties etc. Yet now and then something very surprising will surface. In the early years of 'Canada' the colonial government was very concerned that western 'Canada' might succeed to the US. They started a massive advertising campaign across Europe and brought in many, many immigrants and settled them in western Canada. What types of guns did those immigrants bring? Then in the 1920's there were massive infrastructure projects. managed by the British with German engineers. I grew up in a very small town on the CNN railway line. In the 1920's they had stables of horse and hounds for chasing fox and coyote. I expect they brought in many of the guns that now surface but with questionable vintage and with answerable vintage.

R grade - 1 doggie and 1 bird



S grade

Pipeliner, the A and B Grades could be specially ordered , depending on choices available. I have a late B Grade with a straight stock, 26" barrels, single trigger, and ejectors. Engraving is just a scroll layout.
Drew, the earliest R Grades used a scroll engraving motif, somewhat like the S Grade, but more detail.

Here are a few pictures related to the A and B grades. Hanging tags, shipping crates, and what may be an original case for an A grade owned by a Maine sea captain. The hanging tags are for an earlier B grade and not related to the cased A Grade.

R-Grade from 1905 Catalog --



R-Grade with the scroll --



R-Grade from 1909 Catalog --



S-Grade 1905 Catalog --

The R grade engraving change appears to have been 1907

February 1906 "The Baker Gunner"



February 1907 "The Baker Gunner"

Here's an example of the early R engraving. As I recall this was serial Number 200,001, so it was either the first or second R Grade produced.

That is quite the slow load on that hang tag. Only 2 3/4 drams of E.C. pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot.

Dave, that gun is probably in the 1893-1894 vintage. Would that be an uncommon load for guns of that vintage ?

A note found inside of the case of the cased A Grade above.
It reads " Do not use high powered shells in this gun.
The manufacturer says to use the old type powder.
Dad"

The Overland Monthly, Oct. 1895 “Smokeless Powder For Shotguns”
http://books.google.com/books?id=Wv0MAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA442&lpg
3 1/4 Dram /40 grains DuPont Bulk Smokeless 1 1/8 oz. (1255 fps) = 7440 psi
3 1/4 Dram /44 grains “E.C.” Bulk Smokeless 1 1/8 oz. = 7584 psi
Plus 10-14% for modern piezo transducer numbers

The standard load on 12g L.C. Smith hang tags c. 1887 - about 1920 was 3 Dram 1 1/4 oz. shot (1165 fps)

A c. 1891 12g Parker was patterned with 1 1/4 oz. and 42 grains (3 1/4 Dram) DuPont Bulk

Live Bird loads were usually 1 1/4 oz. 3 1/2 Dr. Eq.

"Old type powder probably refers to Bulk (DuPont, "E.C." or "Schultze") and not Dense Smokeless (Ballistite and "Infallible") which ran 1000 - 1500 psi higher

The March 1893 UMC "Loaded Shells" price list offers both their TRAP and SMOKELESS shells in 12-gauge with 1 1/4-ounce of shot propelled by 2 3/4, 3 or 3 1/4 drams of E.C.