Hi,

Here is the situation, I have children, boy girl twins (Thomas and Audrey), they are a bit more than 7 and a half, I am teaching them how to shoot bb guns. I promised them a Golden Retriever puppy when they turn 9 in March of 2022. The plan is to teach both the puppy and the kids to hunt at the same time.
If you have any first hand knowledge of good breeders of hunting Golden's, preferably within 1000 miles of Kansas City Missouri, please let me know. I would like start contacting breeders, getting on waiting lists, etc. I plan to hunt mostly pheasants. I live on the Kansas side of Kansas City, so I would also love to know of good places to train both the puppy and the kids how to hunt.

Fred

A wise breeder once told me, “You don’t teach a dog to hunt. You teach it to hunt with you. If you have a dog that doesn’t hunt, you can’t teach it to, and you need a different dog”.

My vet is part of a clinical study at the U of M trying to figure out why Golden’s life expectancy has become so short. A neighbor owns a pair of litter sisters, not hunting dogs that I can tell, that are 8 years of age, and look 14. His prior dog didn’t make it to 10. The dogs receive excellent care, by the way.

There is something going on out there, with that breed. I would suggest you do your research, and be open to at least consider other breeds.

https://www.morrisanimalfoundation.org/golden-retriever-lifetime-study

Congrats on having kids interested in bird dogs and hunting.

Good luck.

Best,
Ted

Thanks Ted,

I've often admired your posts, and I agree with you, “You don’t teach a dog to hunt. You teach it to hunt with you". I don't know how it will turn out, I suspect that it will be more that the dog teaches the kids to hunt. But a Golden Retriever is a non-negotiable, I know that it is harder and harder to find hunting Golden's versus show dogs, but that is why I should have started earlier.

Fred

Catchphrases aside, the best goldens are not hard to find. They are hard to pay for - if someone will sell you one.

You have the timing about right. March '22 is coming quickly, but I would think it is doable, or close to it.

One trainer/writer gave a long explanation of what hunting dog training can do. The short version is: The dog was either born a hunter or he wasn't. The training can only help you control the dog. But the dog is the one who knows how to find birds. So, everything you do to control the dog has to potential to reduce the dog's performance in finding birds.

I recommend you get subscribed to Retriever Journal.

Be aware and educated on hip dysplasia as it's prevalent in retrievers. Talk to the breeder about the sire and dam and their lineage for insight to their health.

Be brave and get a Chesapeake! :-) Lagopus…..

Phys doc-I belong to a bird dog club (for 20 years) and personally own 3 field bred spaniels that I trained. I have some recommendations for you. I have also asked a club member who has GR's to recommend a field bred golden kennel.

First, I would contact breeders that only handle field bred lines. Ask them to share their pedigrees, which should show hunt test or field champs. From what my golden retriever friend tells me, dogs from this breed should be tested for a number of things before breeding...eyes, hips, elbows, heart and I am not sure I am getting all of the tests here.

When you settle on a prospective litter to buy a pup from, tell the breeder what exactly you want out of the dog, and ask them to pick a puppy from the litter that has the right personality for you. That might work, although pups change as they mature. It will assure that you get a pup that you can handle if you have never trained a dog.

What really worked for me was joining the bird dog club 20 years ago. That provided me with experienced training partner/mentors, and access to birds. Bird dogs need birds starting pretty young!

I'll post the recommendations I get from my contact here or PM you when I get this, probably this weekend...Good luck!

I think what Little Creek comments about makes sense. In the past, I've had the luck to hunt a fair amount of pheasant behind two good, solid goldens, but they do not seem to come along with much frequency. There are pitfalls, but if you can get a dog person to select the pup, I think you are better off.

If it were me, I would not take the kids along to help pick a puppy, they will be plenty happy with which ever one shows up. You still have time to lobby them for one of the shorter hair "goldens". When you do get the pup, see above where it's not the worst idea to get going with plenty of birds right away, meaning the kids may not understand shooting pen birds, if not see if you can locate a started dog. Fun times, best of luck.

Fred-
Sent you a PM with breeder info. My dad has had goldens for the last 25 years despite my best efforts to convert him to the brown dog club!
Goldens are tought because they are the most popular dog in the US so finding a kennel that has solid hunting lines is well worth your effort.

good luck,

Lance

I have seen litter mates that were as different as night and day. You are going to need the assistance of the breeder, who should know what you want before the litter hits the ground.
With the Setters I have had a choice on, I bring a fishing pole with a pheasant wing, and watch the pups reaction. After a bit of that, I plop my butt down and figure out which pup likes me. Totally unscientific, but, I have had a few good dogs, and at least one great one.

Might as well mention, you don’t always win with a dog, temperament, health, intelligence. I believe having kids around from puppy on will be a plus, regardless.

Best of luck. Few days in life are as good as new puppy day.

Best,
Ted

I've owned 2 both of which were fantastic hunters. One lived to age 14, the other is 11.5 years old. All field bred lines. Both of my goldens weighed in the 62 lb range. Both were excellent duck dogs, but did double duty of upland. Both were fantastic retrievers and sweet as pie.

I have since moved on to pointing breeds, and it appears my Breeder has retired and moved to Ohio. Far as I know Top Brass is still in business and they were the other kennel I researched when I found my current breeder (fireside out of Keysville Va).

Thanks for all the recommendations, please keep them coming. My wife is getting me a subscription to the Retriever Journal for Christmas.

Goldens have become known by too many owners as cancer retrievers. I’ve lost four to cancer so far over 25 years. My next dog will be black. Love goldens around kids. They will take just about any abuse kids can dish out and never flinch. I had a chessie who would nip at your boot or leg if you missed a shot. Different kind of dog. If I lived back on one of my farms I’d have one. But you must fit your dog choices with your needs and circumstances.

Yeah, set aside an additional 10k for healthcare costs for a golden. Hips, knees,elbows, eyes, cancers, treatments, surgeries, transfusions, and they only live 10 years.

Not if you pick'em well.

11 yr, 4 months, 10 days, yesterday, in his 12th season. Zero health issues. No picks but he was out there again today for a Surf and Turf Sunday. Now I have birds to clean.

Lovely, rare, dog there Brent. Hunt it in good health.
I hope the OP doesn't end up with an expensive heartbreaker.

CZ, I have had 5 goldens so far. They all made it well past 10. None had surgeries or any other major maladies. They were all spectacular dogs. They aren't quite so rare as you think.

SunGold retreivers.

here is what they say about the different retrievers as far as biddability goes
You train a Golden with words,
a Lab with a stick
and a Chessie with a 2x4!!!

LOL

Coming from a Field Bred Springer Man!

Thirty plus years ago I was breeding goldens, labs and chessies. I explained the difference between the three breeds like this using breaking into a house as a guide.

If your house gets broken into, the Golden most like will watch everything and if they are pet nicely by the bad guy most likely will leave with them. A lab will bark and raise all types of hell but won’t leave your house and will stay watching things after the thief leaves. The chessie will terminate the thief in your house and if in a bad mood will track down and kill his entire family for good measure.

They flip side was kids could pull a Goldens ears almost off and they won’t even grow. A lab will pull away to keep from being hurt. The cheasie won’t tolerate as a rule. Finger or worse might get trimmed back. So I would not allow a chessie to go to a family with just a small yard and small children. Just not a good combination. Goldens were a great match for them instead.

About twenty years ago, our family adopted a young male golden out of generic puppy mill stock, from an acquaintance family that was leaving the area. It bounced around appearing happy, our kids even named it lucky. It had some odd behavior, even did a small growl, snip at me. It was bounding around the yard during a kids birthday party, then froze solid and its hackles went up a few feet from one of the kids. No one noticed, I called it over by me, it seemed to snap out of its little world and bided me and went into a kennel. My wife didn’t like the optics of me shooting it, so she took it to get euthanized the next day. I’m not at all saying that would happen out of good field stock, only that breeding for confirmation might leave out important traits?

My older brother had a chessie, she was fantastic to hunt with. My brother isn't a member of the forum but enjoyed reading your comments, he said that his chessie would have made a good junkyard dog, but that she was wonderful with his kids. He didn't talk about other people's kids though. He said that she was a lot of work to train. Here, I want to teach my kids to hunt, to have the pleasure of working with a good dog. And when we are done hunting, I want them to have a loving family dog.

Thanks Jon for that articulate explanation.

Fred

When I was a youngster, family friends had a brace of Chessies that we played with a lot. They were great and totally nonaggressive. But stubborn as a mountain.

Chessie have become a small niche breed. If interested in one get to know the breeder and dog line very well before you buy. I know three chessie dogs who became very difficult family members as they got older. They picked one child who was the only one they seemed to tolerate.

One of the three attacked his chosen one, an age seven boy one morning and it required a lot of plastic surgery to repair the damage to his face and ear. I got the job of holding the dog for several weeks until we were certain that there was no rabies involved and then had to put him down. I had warned Bernie several times that his dog was getting to be too touche for the lack of a better word around his kids.

As to stubborn. If chessies were mountains, they would never wear down. Not an inch. Granite is putty in comparison. Most chessies are self trained. They either decide to do it or they do not. There is little or no force training a chessie. As to their being a good family dog. Unless you get one with a temperament problem they are a loyal, with a great personality and determined as they can be. I hunted over one as a kid, who would break ice by biting it to get to a downed duck. And a wounded goose was not match for him. It was like a bowling ball hitting a grey marshmallow. Other than his habit of biting your boot, if you missed, he was the perfect hunting companion.