Would anyone have information about a "Field. London." gun?
SLE
12 bore
30"
2 5/8" chambers
Cyl/Full
Damascus
Nitro proof to 1 1/8 oz

Only text on the top tin says "Field. London.". Serial number looks to be 378 and is stamped on the bottom rib, immediately forward of the forend hook.

Got it today from a very nice fellow, and it should make for a great project. Thanks!

"I have a 1910 Beretta catalog. Beretta was purchasing barrels from many sources. Among them Alfred Field of London, WC Scott, Krupp and Cockerill.

I know all these except Alfred Field. Any information would be helpful.





"

It doesn't read Alfred Field, London?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

It only says "Field. London."



And the flats:

Alfred field & Co. Had premises in Birmingham at Edmund St. Between 1885 and 1901. They also had a London address 1892- 93
Info is from books by Nigel Brown.
I looked them up a while back after I was offered a gun bearing that name which I'm sure was made a lot later than those dates. I'll see if I can find the pics. (It may have been re-barrelled)
There were other "Field's" but non seem to have had a London address.
Are there any other proof marks on your gun ? I think the marks are from later than 1893 as they have oz stamps.

Here's a few more images: serial number forward of the lump, another mark near the lump, the forend iron stating a patent, and the water table that states "Fields Patent".

Thank you. Perhaps is was reproofed, and received the ounce stamp at that time?

Good point, maybe it was nitro proofed . I'm not sure when the reproof stamp came in but can't see one.
I think they're Asbury initials on the barrels and Baker (ejector) patent on the fore end. It's London or Birmingham crown/lion stamps that seem to be absent. It's a bit of a puzzle, it all looks British apart from that I hope someone with more info will chime in soon.

I can't find a reference to a field's patent in the books I have at the mo. I wonder what it was.

This is great info. I don't know who Asbury was, or anything about Baker style ejectors, but now I have something to look into to learn more.

There is a faint mark on the water table, in front of the left fence; maybe that was the crown/lion.

I'm only just starting to learn about British guns, and even limiting my search this last weekend to Birmingham, Edinburgh, or Dublin guns, I found nothing I could afford until this one.

El Garro, since you black barrels, I was wondering: were British damascus barrels ever black/white as opposed to brown? I'm refinishing these barrels, and I prefer black/white. I'll do what looks best to me, since this is not going to be a "restoration", but I was wondering about British damascus ever being other than brown. Thanks.

Alfred Field from IGC:

Name Alfred Field & Co
Other Names
Address1 77 Edmund Street
City/Town Birmingham
Country United Kingdom
Trade Gunmakers
Other Address 199a Bishopsgate Street Without, London.
Dates 1885-1908

Notes
The company were recorded at 77 Edmund Street, Birmingham from 1885 to 1908. They exhibited at the Melbourne Centennial Exhibition in 1888/1889 and gained a First Award.
In 1892 and 1893 they had a shop at 99a Bishopsgate Street Without, London.

The firm was not recorded after 1908.

Tim

Here's a good list of the Brit proof marks which may come in useful.


http://www.hallowellco.com/british_proof%20marks%20-%20syntax%20by%20date.htm

Good info from Tim too.
I'm really not an expert on the history of blacking/browning but I believe some brit makers sold guns black and white patterned barrels yet it seems to be the 'proper' way was browning. I think either can look stunning and while I've not been asked to do a black and white set, I'd love to do some.
Perhaps Drew could comment on this, he's a mine of information on this subject.
Joseph Asbury was one of the well respected Birmingham action maker. There's a few mentions of him on this site, may be worth a search. I'd post links but I'm hopeless with the computer side of things. I've found pics of the fields gun I looked at too but cannot get my photobucket to take orders from me I'll see if I can post the link instead. Sadly, I've not found the pics of the flats on the one I saw.

Thanks Tim. Thanks El Garro.

Based on the chart, unless there's some worn London mark somewhere, to me it looks like 1896-1904 Birmingham proof.

I'll be taking it apart. Would it be expected that there are more marks inside?

Yes Sir, Drew is the mine. I bugged he and a few others with damascus safety and etching questions over the last few weeks. My first set, a two bar Elsie barrel, turned out well and the comments were thankfully very positive this last weekend. The set from the Field are next, and regardless of "proper", I think I'll go with black and white since it's not unheard of to do so on a British gun.

Would an actioner typically stamp their mark on the underside of the barrel? In a book I'm reading on British guns I've been reading about Anson & Deeley being the platform action that most built from. This being a sidelock, is it a particular kind/type or maker?

Bill: It is my opinion that British guns intended for the U.S. market were usually finished in "black & white"

Hemenway's New Model, likely made by J. P. Clabrough courtesy of Bruce Bruner



as were Lindner Dalys

Alfred Field was an Ironmonger / firearms merchant & peddled anything on which he could garner a quid.


May 28th, 1884

I don't think the subject scattergun is a sidelock but some hybrid or a Bonehill brainchild. Can you pull the locks?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Possibly like Christopher George Bonehill's protection filed under U.S. of A. Patent Nr. 404,380 of June 4th, 1889? Haven't found a proper diagram of it.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Can you supply a better image of the marks located inside the square?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Field's Patent again:



Initials "JA" again.



And there is a shallow cartouche and a faint few letters on the other side of the water table:

Oh, so it is a Coil Spring Sidelock. I wonder if William Baker had some influence?

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=85026

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=333182&page=all
Notes the Imperial w/ William Baker Coil Springs.....

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Can you post a photo of the side of the rear barrel lump? And yes, Baker ejectors.

I believe Asbury supplied barrelled actions so probably produced the lumps. Whether he struck and fitted the barrel tubes himself I don't know but it is possible. The gun you have certainly has some interesting features, I've still not managed to find a reference to the locks but hopefully someone will be along soon with some info.

It has a lot of pits too.

Thanks to all for the information. It's been great fun learning about it. I hope it comes together well and is shootable with the light stuff.

IGC on Asbury, FYI:

Name Joseph Asbury
Other Names J Asbury & Sons
Address1 11 Weaman Row
Address2 Lench Street
Address3 4 Sand Street
City/Town Birmingham
Country United Kingdom
Trade Action Maker
Dates 1890?-1948?

Notes

The firm is thought to have been established at 11 Weaman Row in about 1890 as action makers. They produced actions for a range of top quality gunmakers. In about 1894 they moved to Lench Street, and from about 1900 also made barrels. At some time after 1932 the firm moved to 4 Sand Street. In about 1948 the firm closed and one of their customers, A A Brown, took over the premises, stock and machinery.

Tim

Would this action, other than generally being a SLE, be called some style or type of SLE? Like Anson & Deely is a foundational design.

Ok. Thanks for the photo. Nothing unusual. Looks like a great project. Keep us posted on your progress.

Will do. Most of my searching for "Baker style ejector" yields information on an airplane ejector seat. Where would a person look for parts, and using what naming criteria?

I don't know where you'd find parts. I think they were pretty much bench made. There are good drawings of Baker ejectors in Graham Greener's book. Greener put the Baker ejectors in a lot of their guns. A skilled metal worker could of course make anything that you need. Yours looked complete as far as the forend parts.

I understand that a lot can happen between when a gun got its proof stamps and today, but generally are the stamps in this barrel likely to be trustworthy? Nitro proof for 2.5" chambers and up to 1 1/8 oz. is what it indicates as allowable.
Thank you.

I'm not fully convinced the Field is that of Alfred Field. Anyone have any musings on the Martini / Falling Block platforms based on the Field's Patent? Who was this Field? One in the same as Alfred Field?

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...&PHPSESSID=

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

So it appears it was William Field????:

"William Field was a Birmingham gunsmith who patented his falling block design in 1877 and, as I understand it, made his own actions which he supplied to other gunmakers such as Holland and Holland, Greener and Hollis, who then created rifles around Field’s action. As can be seen from the pictures of the sale rifle the stock is reinforced through the pistol grip into the but stock to ensure stable mounting of the action and prevent stock splitting. It is common to find this on Field’s patent falling block rifles from Holland and Holland."


http://revivaler.com/holland-holland-fields-patent-falling-block-rifle/

U.S. of A. Patent Nr. US-200,041

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Field Rifle Co. of Birmingham - 1885 - 1898:

Field Rival Gun:

"William Field, 1881 @ 118, Unett Street, Birmingham. William field is identified in published records as being the manager of the Field Rifle Co; Birmingham 1885-1898."

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=139477&page=all

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

http://s1278.photobucket.com/user/ElGarr...?sort=3&o=7

Here's the one I 'nearly' had. Looking at the position of the pins in the lockplate, I'm pretty sure it had the same lock mechanism. Sorry about the poor picture.

Alfred Field & Co.

Does look very similar.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Thanks for posting the pic, I'd lost the instructions for the way to do it but just remembered it's in an old post here.
That's one of two pics I have, lost the ones with the flats and rib on unfortunately.

No worries & glad to do it. Was there a date range associated w/ your potential purchase?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Sorry Raimey, I've no idea now, it was a few years ago I saw it. Those locks are interesting, didn't realise at the time.

edit. Southgate ejectors on this one too.

Asbury was a machinist and supplied machined parts to the trade. A. A. Brown has his shop tools at their current location. Most interesting "museum." Robin Brown kin dly allowed me to peruse them some years ago.

DDA

Thank you, All. So what's the concensus on what've got here, other than a cool English SLE, from someone named Field, with Aubrey contributing the action? I don't care either way, but it's nice there are interesting features, and I mainly just want it to shoot.

If its still shooting after all these years you've got yourself a good gun. It'll kill a rabbit just as dead as a Purdey will
I wish I'd grabbed the one I saw, I like unusual designs and although I've not got every book published on shotguns, I can't find any reference to the patent. Baker's coil spring locks are slightly different to these so it's all very interesting.

Indeed, unique. Unique in the fact that the ironmonger Alfred Field had such far reaching influence & also unique in the fact that the platform is based on a obscure protection that for a time remains hidden. Possibly the name is that of an employee of Alfred Field??

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

You have a sterling example of a gun made "around the trade".

All excellent. Thank you! I've got a few things to fix, and clean up, and hope it shoots. It's damascus, and the minimum wall thickness is .025", at about 3-4" back from the muzzle. 30" barrels.

It's all being disassembled and cleaned, so here are some pictures of the individual lock components.





Assembled:

The lock looks about like the William Baker style locks the Czech BRNO sidelocks guns used...Geo

Cleaned and putting it back together. I soaked it all in Evapo-rust for 12 hours, and scrubbed with Frontier Pad. That's kept the darker patina in the engraving so it has a coined finish look overall. Old English BLE's seem to have a blackened top lever, trigger plate, and trigger guard. What else would be good to black? Triggers and safety button? Thanks.

Good eye there Geo. As many as I have shot and disassembled, it never crossed my mind.






Assembled:


Subject Field London





Kyrie's Brno

Cheers,


Raimey
rse

Close to finishing Alfred's barrels. I think it's 3 Iron Oxford. Difficult set, but happy enough with this shooter, and getting tips for making it better. Still a few tiny pits visible. There were a bunch. Decided to leave some alone to keep material intact.

Hi All.

Due to a prior crack, and someone sanding the wrist down during the repair, there's no checkering. I've got the stock with a friend to checker it again, but we're stumped on what would be a good panel to put back. It's a very thin and long wrist.

If you can share some examples of small panel checkering for a SLE, that would be very helpful.

There's another Field around. 16ga hammergun, blackpowder proof. It would be fun to have it along with the SLE.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?cPath=350_354_355&products_id=43698

The wood is now done, thanks to a barter with a friend. I blued his barrel, and he recut the checkering.



The barrel is done. It's on the darker side, overall, but the lines in the Fine 3-iron Oxford are discernible. An image for it is over in the gunsmithing forum.

It weighs 6 lb. 11oz. May be a bit short for me, but at least it's usable again, looks a good bit better, and will serve someone well as a shooter SLE. Little bit off the face, which a simple shim will take care of for now.

Well done!!

Thanks Mark. Thank you as well for helping me have the opportunity to see what kind of potential it had.

Wow that is a cool 16