I have recently purchased an old Darne. I bought it because the price was right and the quality seemed high. But once the gun was in my hands, I couldn't figure out what I had. Her are the facts; It has a rocker safety, not the slide safety or the small 9:00 to 6:00 lever. This rocker swings from 10:00 to 2:00, and is built into the receiver, so it was original to the gun. It has F. Darne on the barrel flats, along with a lot of other information as well as a date of 1914. The receiver has well executed game scenes on both sides. The whole gun is engraved. The fences are not rounded at the corners, but rather squarish, and nicely carved. There are no stampings to indicate the grade and, the general style of the receiver is, in my opinion, old style.
Not unusual, but neat...it has a working retractable sling that fits into the stock. I sent a note with pictures to Geoffrey Gournet, and he sent me back a picture of a gun he had seen, and it appears to be the gun I now own. Does any of this sound familiar to anyone? I could send pictures but I'm not sure how to do it.

Sounds like a Francisque Darne model T. There is a restocked model T on Gunsinternational.com, or, at least there was.
If you email the photos to me, I'll get them up on the board.

tedjs@usfamily.net


Best,
Ted

Thanks Ted, I sent you a gob of pictures. Thank you for volunteering to post them.
Best,
Carl

Actually, Carl, this is the gun that I was referring to on guns International:

http://images.gunsinternational.com/list...0E28BB29DF3.JPG

That gun is pretty clearly a model T. If I am not mistaken, this exact gun made an appearence in The Double Gun Journal a few years back, where it was noted the gun was restocked by Ted Neal, and it was his gun.

The barrel flats, of your own gun:



Your gun, appears to be what was cataloged as a model "Fixe" which came in 6 grades, from grade 3 to grade 8. My own Jallas and Cie catalog, from the 1930s, makes no mention of quality stamps on any of the grades, but, the two oval marks on the flats of your gun are indeed, Francisque Darne "Poincons" or, quality stamps. Geoffroy has a bit different version of the catalog, still Jallas and Cie, but, it appears to be different vintage than mine.




Type 3 and 4 Fixe models were cataloged on a different page than the grade 5,6,7, and 8, which were referred to in the catalog as model "Platines". I'm not positive which grade your gun is, and would likely need to do some more research through different vintage Jallas and Cie catalogs to come up with it. One clue to the age of your gun, is the note of the winning of the gold medal in 1914, which, I would guess, leads to production in the late teens to maybe 1930. That stamp eventually disapeared on later guns.



I only put a few of your pictures up, Carl, as only a few were composed well enough to be useful to the discussion. Photographing guns is tough. Try to get a few more well illuminated shots of the barrel flats and tubes just in front of them, and of the action, open and closed.

A digital camera is a better tool for this than a phone.

Best,
Ted

You are so right, I will take some properly lighted shots of barrel flats.
Can you tell me who Ted Neal is, I am not familiar with him?
As to restocking the gun, could it be he repaired a part of the stock as opposed to restocking it? I ask this as the stock is very worn out, but there is a small piece of the stock at the point where the hidden sling is, that is not the same wood. It was a repair job, nicely done.

Other than he had restocked Darne and Charlin guns, and one of them made it into an article in DGJ, the name Ted Neal doesn't mean anything to me.

I am referring to the gun in the ad when I mention the name Ted Neal, NOT your gun-I haven't seen a good photo of the wood on your gun, as of yet.


If you look at the entire ad on Guns International, you will see that it is a pretty spectacular piece of Claro on that gun, which was not available, or, desired by those that would have built it. It is a full restock. Ted Neal is mentioned by name, and it appears he is a hell of a stocker, anyway.

The "Automatique" sling is interesting, but, is, in my opinion, the least desirable of the three sling options. It is narrow, and difficult to fit, and a bit frail in function, as someone already discovered on your gun. Be gentle with it.

Best,
Ted

Don't think I'll even use it.
The wood on the stock is nice but not exceptional.I will send a picture of stock.
Carl

Ted, I have removed the stock on my Darne P-17 with no difficulties but the interior of this gun is totally different. Do you know if it has the same screw in the receiver that threads into a metal rod in the neck of the stock?
Carl

Carl,
I've handled lots of Darne, and their clones, but, the only guns I have pulled down to bits on my own are Halifax, R and V model Darnes, and run of the mill Charlins, if that term can be applied to a sliding breech gun.
Again, good photos would help.

Good Luck.

Best,
Ted

do they still make the Darne or Charlin anymore?And the next thing
i hope and Mr.Schefelbein would write a book on these beautiful firearms.I love these firearms and would buy one but know nothing
about them.Iam a Wildfowler as the british call it and i collect 10,8and 4-bore shotguns,and when i ask many people about did Darne
make super big bore shotguns all i get is i don't know.So Mr.Schefelbein we all hope you are thinking about it.

Darne definitely made 10 Gauge guns. I have one and have seen photos of another.

Do you have a pad on the gun? How's your shoulder?
I have a P-17 12 ga. with the Obturator discs, and just a horn butt plate. It can be punishing after 2 or 3 boxes at the range.
Carl

No pad. It weighs 7 pounds 3 ounces. 2-7/8 inch chambers so I shoot RST 1-1/8 ounce loads in it. Quite comfortable to shoot with those loads.

A few more shots of the OPs gun:









Couple things, in no particular order:

Disc set strikers, first time I've ever seen it on a sliding breech gun. In 3 1/2 decades of owning, study, importing, fixing and enjoying various designs of sliding breech guns, that is a first for me.
I've never seen a non disc set striker Darne with a broken striker, however. Makes me wonder what they thought they were improving?

The checkering seems to be just about worn off. The wood below the sling fitting in the butt stock has been broken, and repaired, not exactly a seamless repair, but, functional, I guess. It appears to have been used fairly hard over the last 90 or so (I'm making an educated guess on age) years, and, I presume the gun still works. This is typical, in my experience.

The styling of the detonators (breech balls) was a stylistic treatment that could be specified on Regis Darne guns-I imagine the same option existed for this brand of gun. You don't see it much after about WWII.

Do tell, Carl-how are the barrels removed on your gun?

Thanks for the comments, Al. I'm thinking about it.

Best,
Ted

So glad you asked. Same as other's, you push the button and tap barrel tips on soft surface. They pop apart. However, when you reverse the process, it's even easier because they slide forward once dropped in place and click into the locked position.
My issue is removing the stock. Compared to a P-17 I have, this looks more complicated. The P-17 requires the removal of two screws, one through the stock neck near the trigger guard into the back of receiver under the back of the sliding breach and two, the removal of a screw inside the base of the receiver which is threaded to the steel rod in the stock.
I don't know what to do in this gun because it's all different.
Best Carl

If interested, I have unraveled the secret of stock removal on this gun. Under the shoulder strap spool in the stock is a hole and that leads to a screw threaded to the receiver by means of a rod. Unscrew that, along with other screw(s) on the stock, and it will come apart...hopefully. Then it can be fixed and refinished.
Carl

Carl,
Snap a pic or two for me, would you? I've never had a chance to tear a Fixe apart.

Later into the Bruchets production of the Darne guns, the design was updated with a typical 10 mm bolt under the buttplate, assuming the customer ordered a buttplate. Guns with a solid stock still had the bolt that came in through the action.

Good luck on the repairs and refinish.

Best,
Ted

Will do, will send it as before. Just finished making the custom screw driver to extract the nut. Will send a picture of that too.
At a later date, I'd like you to explain the basic differences of Darne vs. Charlin...or direct me to a previous explanation? I think you said the Darne is stronger?
Best Carl

Carl, that's lovely engraving on the sliding breech. Are you going to rechecker the stock? Gil

Hi Gil,
Yes I am. I will strip it first, mend the crack on the stock, refinish it and then have it rechecked. Were you merely curious or do you have some thoughts?
Best, Carl

I'm stuck. I have removed the interior nut(within stock), the sliding receiver (for ease or work), removed the trigger plate, the trigger guard and any screws that seemed like they might screw into the receiver base. Still the stock will not come off. At the advise of some knowledgable French Gun owners, I have placed the receiver base in a padded vise and gently pulled on the stock. It's not giving at all. There is a little movement in the stock but not much. I'm missing something. Gonna look more closely and then sleep on it.
Carl

Carl,
A break is a good idea. Remember, do no harm.

Best,
Ted

I looked and I'm going to sleep on it. But, I have a theory. Looking into the bore hole, it looks like there might be a metal washer. It makes some sense because it would center the rod in the hole so the nut would slide on easier. But it might be creating friction and the washer might be hung up on a thread.
I'm thinking of taking a wooden dowel and try tapping on the head of the rod to see if it causes things to listen up. That's where I am tonight.
No scotch involved, have to think clearly! Maybe more to come?

Curious and admirer of the gun.

If anyone is interested, I was correct, the stock was hung up internally on the rod because the rod had a bend in it to accommodate the cast and because it had rusted a bit against the wood. The stock is being refinished and the checkering refreshed.
Carl