I am looking at purchasing an early 12ga Winchester 21 double trigger extractor gun. The gun is marked CYL and MOD. I have only seen guns marked IC and MOD. Is it a true CYL choke or an IC choke marked CYL? Seller has no way to measure the chokes for me.

I have found on my 21's that the markings on the barrel are exact to what the choke is marked on the barrel. I have a CYL. marked gun and the choke is a cyl. bore.

By the way, I have a first year production dbl. trigger, extractor gun. It is a great gun. You won't regret it!

It would be prudent to have the constriction in the modified side verfied.

Cylinder bored Winchester 21s are not scarce in the pre war period. Cylinder bored guns are marked Cylinder. I agree with Orry, get the modified barrel measured. Modified Winchesters are lightly choked, but should have .012 or similar with a bore of .729 or .730.

Coryreb, How do you like the cyl/mod set up? I have never had a cyl choked gun before and to be honest I dont know what to expect as far as patterns and performance on live game.

Orry/Eightbore, Thanks I will have the gun sent to Merrington for inspection if the deal goes through. Like I said I am still on the fence about the cyl choke.

Once you've experienced a Cylinder choke, and I mean that you've given it a thorough testing on targets AND birds, you'll wonder why you never used it before.

my serial #15299 I believe is marked mod/full and measures .010/.032. pattern boards are 30" circle at 40 yds, 7/8 oz of #8.

I have a straight stocked cyl/mod 16 bore M21 in the 5000 serial number range made in 1935. It's an ideal gun for any reasonble range on game birds and has functioned well in Montana and Uruguay. You'll love the versatility of these chokes.

When the Model 21 was introduced to the trade in 1930, no standard variation included an improved cylinder choke. 12 and 16 gauge guns were available in 26" and 28", cylinder and modified. 20 gauge guns were available in 26" cylinder and modified. Your double trigger gun, if equipped with 28" barrels, was described as a stock number 2108 on the October 15, 1930 stock list. I'm not sure when the improved cylinder choke became standard to replace the cylinder. The cylinder was also standard on prewar Model 24 Winchesters.

With modern shells, the Cyl choke works well for reasonable range bird hunting and clay work. Anything under 35 yards is well within range with a reasonable shell.

I have shot rabbits, pheasants, quail, ducks and geese as well as sporting/skeet with it. For a duck gun over decoys or a bird gun over dogs, there is nothing wrong with a Cyl choke in my book.

I had a 1934 (SN33XX) 12 ga 21 Tournament that was choked cyl/IC. The IC was not an overstamp. Chokes were .000 and .005.

Sam

Ok, you guys twisted my arm!! I will give it a shot. Thanks!

I had a later 26" Skeet Grade (#17,781) choked as Sam's gun, cylinder and improved cylinder. It was a wonder gun but went away in trade for a Krupp barrel 8 gauge Lindner Daly. I would like to have the 21 back, but not enough to give up the eightbore.

I often shoot a M21 skeet with the usual Sk1 and Sk2 chokes. I love it for the usual sporting clays layout. The Winchester specification sheets for chokes show that Sk2 is supposed to be improved cylinder which is about 0.005" constriction but can be as much 0.009" depending on bore size. Mine is 0.011" which is about the top of their range for modified which is 0.008" to 0.012". In 12 gauge Sk1 was changed in 1963 to straight cylinder. Before that, there was a pinch in from the bore diameter about 2" from the muzzle by about 0.005". In the last two inches the bore flared out to about 0.020" over bore diameter. One book on the M21 indicates in a table that the probable reason was to give a hotter pattern center but about the same spread as a cylinder bore. Botton line. I think you will enjoy the cylinder/modified combination. Have fun!!

My early 16g DT Model 21 with serial number 63XX is choked Mod and Full. The bores measure .007 and .027 respectively.

I have a 12 gauge choked cyl/imp. cyl. It is a great bird gun. If you watch the Beretta Bird Hunters Journal show, all they shoot is 20 gauge Berettas with at least one barrel choked cylinder. Jack (what's his name) used to say that a cyl. choke would make you a cracker jack shot.