Thinking of purchasing a either a W&S 12 gauge or a Manton 1910s BLE manufactured 12ga. Guns are if similar measurements, tight and on face and fit.

The W&S was manufactured in the 1950's. The gun is mechanically sound and unaltered. Overall condition is very good and the price is reasonable. Its a plain Jane gun but I'm looking for a field gun and occasional clays gun and don't mind that.

The Manton was manufactured in the 1910s, has some engraving ( well done) on the receiver, re blacked bbls and hardware. Stock has some dings and handling marks but no cracks, mechanically sound gun. It's $300 more than the Webley.

As the guns are quite similar in weight, measurements and fitt decision comes down to which will be a more rugged, long lived gun for me.

Any ideas on these two makers and guns?

Made in the 1950's it could be the Model 700. If it is good condition and has been looked after it should be a good rugged workhorse gun that will last, if cared for, for several generations. You will find Smallbore on this forum is a fan of 700's. Lagopus.....

Unless you can have the barrel wall thickness measured on both guns I would buy the one which has not been refinished. If the Maton had the bores honed or the outside restruck when reblacked they might be rather thin. Safe to shoot with proper loads but easily dented thin barrels are a problem in a field gun. And both guns should be shot only with proper loads for their proof. Not factory Anerican shells with 11k psi. Be kind to old guns and they will be kind to you.

Manton is of course a famous name ..... but by 1910, John & Joseph Manton were long gone and the gun is likely to be a 'trade' boxlock, probably made in Birmingham, but possibly Belgian. Chances are that its an 'inexpensive' base gun. Some Manton guns bear a Calcutta address as the firm (that owned the rights to the Manton name) was based there for a time.

Webley & Scott on the other hand are good sound guns, though joint pin wear can be a little harder than average to correct as the pin is fixed (I think).

If the W&S you are considering is a model 700 and if it is in good condition and in proof, the real world present day price should be about $2,500...Geo

Hands down best bet will be the Webley 700. Just about as bullet proof as any Birmy boxlock ever made. Usually very plain wood but layed out well for strength. The Southgate styled ejectors are very reliable. Chambers are probably 2 3/4", and barrels are strong.

Agree with everything said about the Webley. That'd be my choice as well.

Thanks guys!

Fine well made for hard work guns but could I just add that some of the early Webley & Scott 700s where made with 2½ inch chambers rather than 2¾ inch so you will do well to look at the proof marks.

good luck with your choice..are they both in Montana by any chance?
cheers
Franc

From what little I know about Manton John from UK is dead on. Manton was long gone at least the famous one.Someone used there name would be my guess.....

As has been said so often here, buy the gun, not the name.

If you can get barrel wall thickness readings, the Manton may be OK. It is likely a Birmingham boxlock, as well.

An unaltered 1950s W & S is probably a safe bet, but I would evaluate them both, and pick the one I liked best.

Yes, Montana...update on the Webley, it's a bit older than first thought, prob a 300 series from around 1920...does that change any of the opinions??

Any gun that came from Webley was solid and had a good pedigree. The so called "Manton" was built to deceive the unwary--it's obviously spurious. Prewar Webley's had incredible quality.

is it a screw grip scott?i think those are better fit and finished then the later 700. either one is a great gun if in safe condition.the manton named gun might be a scott also.

Here's the listing for the gun, I've negotiated a slightly lower price: http://www.hillrodandgun.com/picture.php?id=12724

Not carrying about prestige or what anyone else thinks I would buy the W&S. The only real "weakness" is non-replaceable hinge pin, but one isn't likely to shoot one enough to wear it out.

While the hinge pin may not be replaceable on the W&S, TIG welding solves that problem by building up the worn areas.

gsp, is skeet-1 in both 30" barrels what you want? Easy to take choke out but hard to put choke in. Looks like a great gun for the price...Geo

Appreciate all the informed opinions....I hunt over pointing dogs and the Sk1/Sk1 is fine for me, I'm an open choke kind of guy. I believe I will jump on the Webley, he knocked a little bit off the top as well.

I've looked at the pictures and it is definitely NOT a Model 700. At least not like any I have seen as the 700 did not have a top rib extension. I think it more like the Model 400 that was made up until 1946. It was made in 3 grades and I think that is a Grade 3. If Smallbore is online and you can massage him he is a better judge of such things than I and should be able to clarify. Lagopus.....

The Manton on HR&Gs site looks like a Birmingham boxlock, to me. And it may even be on a Webley Screw-Grip action.

Is the Webley a screw grip as well?

Yep, it sure looks like it to me...

I bit my tongue at the notion of reporting for the umpteenth time the fact that two of the Webley 700s in the care of hunting friends have suffered the same, broken, integrated striker/tumbler over the past few years.
Yes, I've been told, ad nauseum, that lots of guns have integral strikers, and a broken one is rare. Might be true.
But, I've seen enough for me.
I have also been told that Webley 700s exist with disc set strikers, but, it simply doesn't seem to be in the DNA of what the 700 existed for, and at that price point. I've looked at a bunch, and never seen one set up that way.
I'm not talking devils advocate between the two guns you had listed, and guns from the turn of the last century seem to bring their own problems, due to the age they are now. I think the Manton could easily become a money pit. But, I think the Webley, graced with the disc set strikers, would be my choice also. Trust me, having the tool to remove the discs and a pair of spare strikers fashioned will be MUCH cheaper than having the integral striker/tumbler repaired, and if it ever happens that you break a striker, it won't spoil a hunt, which would be the case with the latter.
Good luck, let us know what you end up doing.

Best,
Ted

Agree with Lagopus that it looks like a Grade 3 Model 400. Very popular gun, and the direct predecessor of the 700. W&S went backwards on their grades on the 400's: 3 was the basic gun, 1 was the highest grade. They got even more confusing with the 700 series: 700, basic gun; 702, next step up in quality; 701, top quality of the 700 series.