I'll try to make this as Short as possible. My 8 year old male Brittany (Gabe) is the third male Brittany we've had. Hands down he's the best hunter. Super nose, great tenacity, all the superlatives.

The one bad thing is that I missed at least 4 or hunting seasons with him. Taking care of family members, family (both sides) deaths and the aftermaths, And I had (have) medical problems that saw me laid up two whole seasons and too weak to REALLY hunt last year.

He hunts beautifully. He does get walks in the woods 5 or 6 days a week throughout the year, and if he gets out of sight for very long he'll always come back if I whistle for him, occasionally call his name. Many times he just comes back. He gets into anything I command "Drop It!" and he does, usually right away, sometimes the second command.

This morning we had a great hunt, although the weather was too warm. Anyway, I cross-shot a cock pheasant as he cleared the woods into a field. Nice set-up. I got to him before Gabe because he missed his flush and was still holding for him. He came in a bit. The bird had a few last breaths, so I merely was stepping on him with pressure while he died.

Well, Gabe saw the bird, must have sensed he wasn't yet dead(?) and tore into his side, and didn't drop it until I forcefully yelled it. He sat as told. The bird died but nerve impulses flapped a wing an inch or so. Gabe saw this and tore into his tail, tearing through its skin and into the meat. He wouldn't let go with my voice command alone, I found myself pulling at his back, maybe lightly spanking him (pure instinctual desperation. He finally did. By the way, finally means like 4 seconds tops.

He again sat on command. I told him to stay and I reached down and picked up the bird. I couldn't reach back into my vest, so I held it out, took off my vest, put it in and then went on. Gabe remained inert this whole time.

It's a shame that the bird got ripped to the point where I didn't want to bother making it a meal. It's still in my vest in the trunk.

What should I do? Would it be a good thing or a stupid thing to try to train him some more with the dead bird, planting it in the yard with a scent trail or not?

A big part of me thinks he wouldn't have been so ardent if the bird was stone dead and I guess I want to test that out.

Comments?

I think that after 4 years he was just excited to be out there and had not had a bird to retrieve. I would see how he is with the next one and let him do the retrieving even if you know where the bird is.
With most experienced dogs, retrieving the same bird over and over again doesn't work and most will only go to it and leave it.

Just hunt him out of it unless it becomes a habit. You don't want to discourage his interest in the birds. Some dogs become hard mouthed; its a fatal error if you can't break it. I don't mean fatal to the dog, just that he will not be a reliable hunting companion if he destroys the game...Geo

Next time, if he won't let go, "Flank" him. Reach over and grab some skin just ahead of the rear leg. When you pull up, he'll drop the bird and spin his head around, so you have to let go quick..

Sounds like some game farm birds will get him back into things in no time.
Regards,
Jeff

My Lab ate a dove one time. Ran up to it, picked it up, and swallowed it. First bird of the year. Has never done it before or since - 8 years. I wouldn't worry unless it proves to be a habit. If you still had your foot on it that may have had something to do with it, too.
My last Lab would not retrieve a swan after I brought it home after a hunt where I was invited, but the dog was not. Ran up, sniffed and wanted nothing more to do with it. When I took him hunting and dropped one, same thing, he just ran up and sniffed and looked at me like "What the...?" Then the bird flapped a wing, reflex I guess. He promptly picked it up and brought it back, and never hesitated again. Who knows what they are thinking sometimes.

with an 8 year old dog and the amount of actual hunting and training you have put into the dog over the past few years I'm not sure this is a major issue. I train very high level field trial dogs and have only ever had one stick. I believe that was because I put too much pressure on him as a young dog and did not entirely have him trained at that time to handle the pressure of intense training. Since that time and with all my current dogs I take the bird from them In a very specific and same way all the time. The dog comes to heel and sit on my left side. I reach down with my right hand, give the command to drop and TAKE THE BIRD OUT OF HIS MOUTH IN A DOWNWARD AND AWAY MOTION. I see many people reach down with their left hand and pull the bird UP and away. That will make any dog prone to sticking drive upward and not release the bird. Now that is not entirely your problem but I would make the dog retrieve in that fashion and take the bird from his mouth in that way. The other point I would make is to not ever let it happen again. The next time you take him out he will try that again if you do what you did the last time. Discipline him in a very sever way. I don't necessarily mean physical but you have to let him know the world is coming down on him. That means big voice, overbearing presence, quickly grabbing the dog and flipping him over on his back and holding him till he gives in. Big voice while doing this can work well. If the dog is collar trained turn the collar up as high as it will go and use a big voice. I don't believe in a whip or hitting the dog which many pros would use in this case. Let me know how it goes and perhaps I can be more specific on my advice if it repeats

Sounds like a dog with a live pheasant retrive or two under his belt, in which the bird pecked at, or, spured him.
If the dog watched the bird struggle with you, protective instinct might have turned on.
I also doubt it will be an issue in the future.

Best,
Ted

I agree with Ted. My Shorthair had a very soft mouth and retrieved many quail that were still alive. This changed after several trips to Nebraska and North Dakota after pheasants.

Gentlemen, thank you one and all for your contributions. I believe deep inside that this is a flukey kind of thing that Gabe and I will work out. After reading your posts I am heartened that this is possible.

By the way, I'm taking him out tomorrow morning with a woman who owns his sister. The 2 dogs are peas in a pod except his sister doesn't remotely have his hunting genes. Even though they've walked together and played together several times, whenever they hunted together Gabe was strictly a solo act, so there's no worry about them paying attention to each other instead of the job at hand.

Carol (the other hunter) wants it to be a short hunt (hour and a half - 2 hours)due to other obligations. It will be in a different place which is also a factor. The best part for me is the ticks are NOWHERE near as bad as where I hunted yesterday (47 ticks off Gabe, 4 off me).

I'll be sure to report back.

Agree with JNW that preserve birds are a good substitute when, for whatever reason, you're unable to shoot many wild birds over a dog. That may help with retrieving issues.

With dogs that don't want to drop a bird, it sometimes works to lift them up off the ground by their hindquarters. Will often cause them to drop.

My oldest shorthair (now 13, hunting career ending this season) has had hundreds of wild birds shot over her. Good retriever, does not have a hard mouth, but sometimes doesn't want to drop the bird. I'll use a low level electronic reminder with her, to reinforce the drop command. Works with her, but you have to know your dog's personality. Excessive pressure can result in a dog that will no longer retrieve. At which point about your only option is force breaking, preferably done by a good pro trainer.

Larry; I can see where electricity might work on an old dog that knows it is supposed to 'give' and won't do it. But shocking a young dog that won't give up a bird and doesn't know the command 'give' might be one of the worst things the handler can do. It might lead to all sorts of problems making the dog afraid of birds just to mention one thing. It could even lead to 'blinking' birds which next to gun shyness is about the worst fault a bird dog can have. Handlers must respect electricity. It can be a great tool when used correctly but in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they are doing, or in the hands of the short-tempered, impatient handler, a young dog can be ruined in an instant.

Buzz, the dog in question--although not as experienced as his age would indicate--is 8. If you know the stimulation level to which your dog responds, I don't think there's much danger. You certainly don't want to fry a dog that refuses to drop. However, trainers regularly use an ecollar "nick" to remind a dog that locks up and then starts to creep in on the bird, and they wouldn't do that if they thought it likely it would cause the dog to blink birds or anything of that nature. But you do need to know when to apply juice, and at what level. A dog's owner should know that if he's trained and hunted with an ecollar.

It might also be possible that a little tug of war took place. I like to hold low hand and take a step back if the dog seems a little excited and maybe a bit misbehaving. They'll usually lower their guard some and take a soft step towards you.

An electric collar is used for correction. Correction can only occur if the dog first understands the command and second knows how to turn off pressure i.e. a nick. Buzz and L. Brown are very correct in what they say.