I need a Mfg date for an E. James 12ga hammer gun, w/ spiral twist dam. barrels. ser. number is 1789.

thanks
binko

Doubtful if anyone can help based on SN alone. If you can describe the proofmarks shown on the gun--or, better still, post photos--we can probably give you an approximate range of dates.

here's a pic

I need to prove somehow, that this gun was made prior to 1898, which to me is obvious, but a gun dealer is refusing to ship it as antique. Any suggestions?

thanks
binko

They look to be pre 1875 Birmingham black powder marks to me. If you contact Smallbore on this forum he is in the gun trade with experience in exporting and an expert on these things. I'm sure he can help with some form of letter that can confirm for you and provide suitable evidence. Failing that e-mail the picture to the Birmingham Proof House and obtain evidence from them. Their say so should be all the dealer requires. Lagopus.....

Thanks for your input, I did message him.

Binko

Take a look at this:

http://www.vintageguns.co.uk/articles/514-2

and this:

http://proofmarks.tripod.com/englishproofs.html

You should be able to match the marks on your gun to the ones in the two articles.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Remington X, I found the marks and they clearly show between 1875 - 1887. I have sent this to the dealer, but somehow I still believe he will balk at this information, saying it doesn't prove anything...so I'll have to pay a FFL transfer fee.

thanks a lot!

binko

UPDATE!

The dealer came back with, I quote, "I don't have time to go looking at and researching "proof marks", and I am tired fooling around, so either send the FFL or I'm not shipping". I kind of figured that from the beginning, but I feel he should have been straight with me from the get-go and said that it was what he required for shipment. Oooh but no, he said if I could prove it was made before 1898 he would ship it as an antique. Some people are just sore losers. Thanks every one for the input, but we got beat by another "so called" gun dealer!

Thanks
binko

Some are playing CYA to stay on the safe side and out of trouble with BATF. Antique or no antique, you know you're totally safe if you ship to an FFL.