Since birdguns and bird-dogs go hand in hand, I thought I'd ask here. I guess I'm allergic to some dogs now (oh, the joys of aging!) but I'm fine with dogs like Poodles. Our family dog (a poodle) of 13-years passed-on in September and we're finally getting over it. I've researched the Pudelpointer and I'm waiting to hear back from some of the contacts I've made already. Any suggestions as to other types of dog breeds? and/or contacts? I'm an upland hunter and also need a good house pet (that is good with kids).

I am allergic to some as well. My German Wirehairs have been good. Plus they don't shed much, and what they do is easily vacuumed up.

Wirehairs? Thankyou! I'll look into them as well. I was thinking about an English Cocker until I hunted with a gorgeous little [censored] the other day. She was spectacular in every way that counts, except that she put me out of action for all of that evening. I'd like to stay relatively small (20 to 40 pounds, max) if at all possible. In a perfect world it would be an English Setter, but the one I now work with requires me to medicate constantly.

We cant use the common term for a female dog here?

What about a Labradoodle.
Could be the best of both worlds. Maybe a larger breed than you wish however.

Both are great dogs, but....yea, kinda big.

My wirehair is right around 40-42lbs

I knew a guy who hunted with a black Standard Poodle all clipped up show fashion with a ball at the end of his tail. It was a pretty good water-dog and dove retriever...Geo

The Vizsla is a good choice if you get one from proven hunting stock. A nice looking dog great in the home. A couple earned the title of Versatile Champion at The NAVHDA invitational this year. That is quite an accomplishment

My next one is going to be a Spinoni. We have a local breeder that has some great ones. I've hunted behind some fantastic dogs over the years and these Spinoni's are as good as they come. I'd never even heard of them until a couple of years ago. Stumbled into them at a pheasants forever event. I understand they are low/no shed and fine for people with allergies. Great in water, corn fields or upland. Not a common or cheap dog - but worth the investment from what I have seen.

p.s. I like your screen name as I am a Lloyd-III in real life. Not a very common name around here.

Good luck with your dog search...

I've seen the poodle stuff in my search, what a kick in the pants! I've actually hunted with a visla who was great, but that was back in my pre-allergy days. How do they do with us sniffily folks?

I'm allergic as well. I have to take antihystamines if I'm even going into a house with a dog. Can anyone tell me how to find a Poodle that's from actual hunting stock and can they be trained to flush Quail?
Jim

From what I've seen they are good on waterfowl, and are flushing and retrieving dogs (including retrieving on doves).

Not easy to find and may not be any hunting stock per se in the U.S. but the Lagotto Romagnolo is supposed to be easy on allergies, no shed, and could make a good flusher and retriever. I know someone who has one as purely a hose pet and can confirm the no shed aspect.

I've got to look that one up (never heard of it before). My research has narrowed it down to German shorthair or pudelpointer, but the jury is still out on the actual hypoallergenic factor on these two breeds. I'm mildly concerned about keeping such high-energy dogs around the house, but I'm still early into the research. I'd rather not get a "big going" dog, so something that stays close is still the goal. Don't want to bump too many ruffies! If pointers won't work, then maybe a hunting poodle?

Ironman5- Thankyou! I am a third as well. My son is legally a forth, but he goes by a nickname his mother gave him so the line is threatened! Looked up the Spinoni. Another great dog that I'd never heard of. Probably out of my league, but super nice in that it reportedly has an easy pace and it stays close.

jmc-The Lagotto Romagnolo ie "the lake dog from Romagna" looks way cool. If you have one you can even go into the truffle business when hunting season ends. No mention of it's hypoallergenic nature, but it looks alot like the Portuguese Water Dog which is reportedly allergy neutral.

I would check on the Vizslas and allergies. Every one I have hunted with has been grand, and two were also house dog/pets with great temperment.
P.S.
Says here that Vizslas are the original hypoallergenic dog.
http://www.care.com/family-pet-guide-dogs-sporting-vizsla-p1104-q168399.html
I don't know that I agree with that chewing stuff. My buddy left his in the house when he was at work and it never chewed anything. His Golden before that tried to eat everything, including the kitchen sink.

Lloyd3 - I think you have a dilemma. I've fussed with Field Bred Springers, and Labs for about 30 years, so I'm a bit of a traditionalist. It's my opinion that the lesser-known breeds being mentioned here are lesser know for a reason - on average, they aren't as successful as the popular breeds. If they were, they would be more popular. Not to say you can't get a great dog from one of the less popular breeds, but it is a game of probabilities, and IMHO the deck is stacked against you. From what I have heard, the labradoodle or goldendoodle may be a good choice

tudurgs- I suspect that you're onto something. I am almost a complete neophyte when it comes to good dogs (mine have been mostly pets and mutts). So, this is a brave new world for me. What helps is having a 9-year old campaigning (almost daily) for another dog, and....it would be very nice to have one that is dual-use. This allergy thing really limits my choices, but I figured that if there was any collection of folks who would know something about upland bird hunting dogs, it would be the denizens of this forum.

What little I've learned fits with what Tudurgs said. Also, a "big running dog" can be trained to hunt close and big on command. Training a dog to hunt bigger or faster than it naturally hunts is like pushing on a rope.

I think you're on the right track with a GSP for a good breed that can do it all with speed, enthusiasm, and be a good companion. The allergy issue is something I just deal with. Frankly, I don't think there is such a thing as a hypoallergenic dog. It isn't the hair that's the issue. It's the dander.

If you're a novice like me, I recommend you consider buying a trained dog from a reputable bird dog trainer. I did and I'm glad I did.

My wirehairs have all hunted close. I hunt everything from the various desert quail to Sage Grouse and waterfowl with them. I have hunted woodcock and ruffies with good success with both of them. To me they have been great for someone who lives somewhere you can hunt more than one species or hunts across the country. I have a Lab, English Pointer, and the two Wirehairs. If you want close work stick with a flusher or a pointer similar to mine such as a short hair. Be careful though with the short hair as some guys are trying to breed them like EPs to run bigger. Short hair does not always mean less shedding. The worst dog I have is the English Pointer.

I do not agree with the labradoodle thing. There is no consistency in breeding as you are essentially getting a high priced mutt IMO. A couple friends of mine have them. One is a good hunter but the others could care less to look at a bird. Any of the rarer breeds mentioned are good dogs as long as you find some good lines. There are some guys in my NAVHDA group that have Puddelpointers, Spiniones, Visilas, and Griffons that all are great dogs. They may not be as "out there" as some, but if you visit a NAVHDA group, you should be able to see and watch the various dog breeds work. From there you can determine which breed is for you. We are all biased and think ours is best lol.

I have been training bird dogs for over 20 years and am partial to Brits and GSPs. Do NOT get one of these if you have allergies. Do attend a training organization such as Navhda or
a Shoot and Retrieve session. At one of these Events (There are a lot in Colorado)You can find local chapters on the internet there will be plenty of friendly people who will talk all day long about there dogs and you can find good breeder leads. See the dog breeds work and find out that there are a lot of fine working dogs that will fill the bill for you. They are all going to look great. Your allergy is a real consideration to the happieness of the familyand dog dont rush it will be worth it to get a correct fit.

There's no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog. But, there's some advice here from the Mayo Clinic. http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hypoallergenic-dog-breeds/AN01953


Wade,
We've been giving fish oil to our E-pointer for about a year now. It has drastically reduced shedding. We've had to adjust the quantity to keep her from getting too loose, but settled on a small cod liver dose. The large fish oil capsules were just too much for her 38 lb size.

I've never hunted behind a Spinoni, but a friend has had them for pets for many years and they are allergy-free and excellent pets. Can be a little physical for anybody tiny or ancient, tho--big dogs. Same deal with doodles and Standard Poodles; all can be trained to be excellent hunters, but are a little big for some people.

Chuck, the dog-allergy thing seems very relative to the individual and the dog. Some people are allergic to any dog, including the breeds mentioned.

I guess anyone who wonders about it needs to visit a lot of breeders/dog shows (and have medicine and an anti-allergy "pen" handy....). And I suspect that an allergy might come on long after you have the dog in the house, since repeated contact seems to provoke allergic reactions in some people. People with severe allergies need to do some "experimenting before buying," for sure. Those who can keep the dog outside most of the time are in a better position, I think.

Hi Mike,
Yes, the allergic reaction intensity seems to be dependent on the individual with the allergy. There's no way of telling what the reaction will be from what little I know. I'm allergic to many airborne things. I have prescription meds for my allergies. When I hunt, I'm always dealing with some level of reaction. I was very concerned about getting my first dog. In fact, I told my wife "no pets" when we got married, due to my allergies. I did have some reaction, but over the years, it has all but gone away. I never had a reaction to anything that was at the level of needing an Epi-pen.

Regarding Spinoni, I like the stuff a lot. The Italian restaurant we frequent serves it.

Funny how many Italian words make one hungry. (And then there's the women....).

Look, all I know is that poodles aren't a problem and English Setters are. I've gone online and, as with most things medical, everybody has an opinion. It's the dander, no, it's the saliva, no, it allergens that have been tracked in....sheesh! I do miss having a dog around (the house seems sooo empty), so I'll have to do hard work to figure out what I can get away with and what I can't. I appreciate everybody's input.

Well, that link to Mayo Clinic says there's research suggesting female dogs and Labs may put out less allergens. A female Lab is a great companion. I have one. They hunt close, are easy to train for hunting. They are generally limited in their hunting endurance and heat tolerance, speed, and range, compared to E-pointers, GSPs, etc.. But, my 50 lb female Lab is a super companion, has a good nose, and produces birds reliably.

Poodles make great hunting dogs. There is a very dedicated group of people breeding hunting poodles and running them in various kinds of hunting dog trials. Some of the many players are: Jac Harbour of Tudorose poodles in Oregon; Jaci Bowman of Oakwind Kennels in Wisconsin; Dr. Grace Blair of Cosmic Poodles in Montana. Those are a few to get you started. There is also a hunting poodle group on Yahoo.
By the way, I have a hunting poodle and they are wonderful. But get one from a breeder who is serious about hunting and knows their stuff.
Regards, RCC

I've been allergy tested and am mildly allergic to cats and dogs. Dogs stuff my nose up pretty good, but heck, I'm sure not going to give up my bird dogs. And for me, a bird dog is an English Pointer. I keep some of them in the house esp when they are young so they don't get kennelized, but mainly my dogs live in a kennel. I do have a toy poodle named Keke....a beautiful dog and supposedly hypoallergenic. A show dog. She is in the house and still makes me sneeze a little. I've thought about carrying the little 4 lb girl in my hunting vest to see if I could get her to run the birds out while the pointers are pointing, but I'm afraid it might mess up her show coat. Anyway, enough of my rambling. Good luck finding what you want. There are good dogs in all breeds, or so I've been told. If you want a medium range dog, don't get a poodle or a spimoni, or a lab.

Llyod,

If I remember correctly, poodles have hair, not fur. Dogs with hair do not shed like dogs with fur and also put out much less allergens. That's why poodles are good for folks with allergies. So, a poodle or a poodle mix might be the answer - as well as looking to see if there are other breeds with hair instead of fur. Poodles were originally bred and used as water retrievers, so while they may not be commonly used as hunting dogs today, their genes do provide the oportunity to find a good hunting poodle.

Lloyd,

The Irish Water Spaniel is also listed as a good allergy hunting dog, and possibly the Portuguese Water Dog. Does anyone have any experience with these breeds?

I had a GWP who was an outstanding Pheasant dog. For whatever reason, I just could never get her to swim. She now resides with my son and his family where she is loved and fussed over by my Grand-daughters.

Because I am now primarily a duck hunter, I wanted a breed that would take to water like a duck, retrieve, and flush the occassional upland bird. Because I wanted a smaller breed, I settled on an American Water Spaniel. He is going on 3 now and we have had a blast together. Loves to hunt. Loves to train. He has a nice, tight coat which causes no allergy problems for me or my wife. Whenever burrs get stuck on his ears, I spray a little PAM on the comb and out they come. He weighs about 40 pounds and has handled everything from quail to geese. I have also rediscovered retriever hunt tests, which is an added bonus of fun.

Tough to find, as they are somewhat of a rare breed, but the good news is almost all that own them are hunters so they have not been split into "field" and "show" types, yet.

Anyway, something to consider. Good luck. I like them all.

If you are allergic to the poodle, it is a different allergy than the other dogs-cats. Dogs and cats fur produced dander. Almost all people allergic to dogs/cats are allergic to the dander. Poodles do not have fur. They have hair which grows much like human hair and does not shed and thus, do not have dander.

Thanks guys! I'll look into the Water Spanials (both Irish and American). In a perfect world, I'd prefer a pointer to hunt with, but it seems that the flushing dogs make for easier house pets. And, as a practical matter, any dog I end up with will spend far-more time at home than he or she will in the field.

Jakearoo- There is definitely a difference between hair and fur, at least for me.

All of them do. I'd like to hear what you end up with. Pix too, of course.

A Vizsla is to gundogs the same as what bagpipes are to music.
A wailing inconvenience.

Lloyd3:

Be very wary with the Irish Water Spaniel. Great breed, super, super smart. Loves to please. Problem is, almost no one hunts with them anymore. The IWS was my first choice. I love the history behind the breed. They are the clown prince of the marsh, and I thought it would be fun to have and train one.

Believe it or not, there was a time in this country when they were number one. But, the easy care and early trainability of the Lab and other breeds pushed them off the map.

Today, the breed has pretty much been taken over by the show and fluff crowd. Field stock is out there, but you have to look really hard and examine the pedigree carefully. Don't be fooled by the Junior Hunter title and "my dogs hunt." Look for Master Hunters on both sides. Do the breeders actually duck hunt, or just go to hunt tests? Big difference. I have never seen an IWS at a NAHRA or HRC event. I even searched in the UK, with most breeders telling me that they import dogs from the US.

This is why I went with the American Water Spaniel. Almost every breeder of the AWS is a duck, upland hunter or both.

Good luck.

Oldmainewoodsman: Thank you for that insight. I'm at the point where I'm lining up different types of dogs to "visit" with to see how I respond. I was at a Vintager's dinner last night and got a bit more local information to work with, so now it's down to a process of elimination.

I've been trying for several years now to find a poodle that is from hunting stock. While there is a small cadre of breeders that claim they want the poodle to become more popular as a hunting dog, they are a close knit group and have made it very hard to break in and actually get one.

If you find one please let me know, I am still trying.

Rob:

I have seen a couple of Poodles at retriever tests in Maryland and Virginia. They do fine at the Junior/Started levels, but not so well at the Intermediate/Senior levels. I think there is one who has attained Master Hunter. I will find out and see if I can find a reference for you.

Kind regards,

Lloyd:

Don't let me scare you away from the IWS. They are a great breed and it would be good for the breed to see more of them in the duck blind. I just wanted to let you know it will be a challenge to find a field bred one.

More than one breeder in the UK has told me that they fear the breed is dying out. This is a reason why they import dogs from the USA. Many breeders here want their dogs in the field because they believe in the hunting heritage and history. Sadly, most buyers want them as pets or companion dogs.

I had a little male IWS pup that I was taking care of while the owner recovered from surgery. Just for fun, I started taking him to the pond for informal fun training. At about 12 weeks old I had him retrieving to hand from both land and water, and with no training he was sitting at the whistle and would look out over the water when he heard the duck call. It was tough to give him back. He had solid field breeding on one side, and show breeding on the other. Can only imagine how he would have been if I could have spent more time with him. Owner doesn't hunt. Anyway, I was very impressed with how smart he was.

Like ball players, the smart ones get better.

There are some very good IWS hunting lines in Ireland. Unfortunately I do not remember the kennel name. Ask the question here, http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/...672c16850075e6d

Anyone know a source for wirehaired vizslas in North America?

Here's a list of 15 kennels advertising WHV's

http://www.gundogbreeders.com/breeders-by-breed/wirehaired-vizsla/

Well...I've done it. Sent in the check today. You would think at 56 I would know better, but here we go again. The dog is out of Menomen, Wisconson and she is being trained as I write this. Now I'm going to have to contend with both a 10-year old boy and a poodle puppy. Yet another adventure.

You'll have to post pics of your dog you know.

I remember Oren Benson doing retriever demos breaking out a big grey poodle and doing everything as well as the labs and chessies he was doing the show with.

One of the judges at AWS Hunt Tests I attended bred and raised Vislas and IWS, it was fun to watch them do field work after the test.

I also trained with another fellow that had IWS for waterfowl hunting, they were nice dogs.

Funny story, we were out training with his IWS and my AWS, a fellow came up and watched for awhile. Finally he walked up and said "I know I know the big one is a Poodle but what is the little one?" I told him it was a "chocolate springer with a perm".

Anybody that says money can't buy happiness never bought a bird dog puppy. And a ten year old boy to take hunting while your still young enough! You are the luckiest man on the planet in my opinion.

Mike: Thank you! I've never owned a true hunting dog before and my son is almost as high-energy, thus my mild anxiety about it all. But you are right, I do feel fortunate. I did want an older dog (for all of the usual reasons!) but he wouldn't hear of it. I guess everybody ought to get a puppy at least once in their lives, so here we are. This little girl should be a finished dog by the time we finally get her, and I've been around enough "finished" dogs to know how wonderful they can be. I'm sure it will be quite the adventure.

Lloyd, I grew up with poodles. Retrieving fanatics and the smartest dogs I've ever had anything to do with. I have allergies, can't be near my brother's Lab or my dad's old Weimaraner. And most other dogs with fur. But for some reason I'm not at all bothered by my Llewellin setters.

I'm also about the same age as you and have a nine year old boy. The boy and dog go well together. Would be worth the hassle of the meds.

Really hope your poodle works out.

Canvasback: No meds necessary with poodles for me. She will be our 4th poodle, but the first one that isn't essentially a lapdog. I really wanted a pointing dog, but the allergy issue kept me going back to where I felt safe. It's the hair versus fur thing I guess. Hair is not a problem; fur is. I have worked with a lovely English setter for the past 6-years and he's a wonderful family pet and a fully-finished hunting dog. But....generally by day two of being at work with him, I'm on antihistamines and ibuprofen to get through the day.

I'm hoping its as you mention, boy and dog go well together. Everything beyond that will be gravy.

Im guessing the dander is the issue since you really don't breathe much hair/fur in. Im allergic to about anything. But I seem to have built up tolerance to my lab and pointer. From what I've read, curly coated dogs tend to retain the dander (and loose hair) in the coat until brushed.

Hello:

Nine years ago, I rescued a Pudelpointer. This dog became the "perfect" dog for our family.

It is a great dog for hunting pheasants and the best feature is that it does not "shed!" My wife insisted that our next dog be a dog that did not shed thus the Pudelpointer!

Our PP is a house dog and we do not have any problems with dog hair in the cars or the house!

I could go on about how great the PP is but if you are interested in my rantings, give me reply.

Oh yes, I did not have to train my dog to come, retreive or do anything that one would have to do for a bird dog. He was 5 months when we got him and he adapted very well to our life styles.

The down side is that he was/ and perhaps is fur sharp! If you have cats in your neighborhood, you will have to keep him under control! Cats in the neighborhood, "Not any more."

Check out the PP I think that you will be very satisfied.

Good luck,

Franchi

I have a GSP. She is 13 going on 14 this year. I have often heard the "high-energy" tag applied to the breed. This usually comes from folks who get them as pets and do not hunt. From my experience, once a GSP learns to hunt they understand their place in the world. I also can not stress enough that a GSP, actually every dog, needs a good foundation with obedience training. When she got to be 5, she was something to behold in the field. She had figured out how to use the wild and could sweep a field looking for quail or pheasant. Today, she mostly sleeps, but when I her take to hunt, she still puts out the effort.



I do appreciate your quest for a good companion. Hope you find the right dog, no matter what breed...

Pete

PeteM I have a GSP that will be 14 in June and I couldn't agree more. I was warned when I first got Molly at 7 weeks that GSP's were crazy and she would tear up my house. I lived in a 1300 sf condo (with no yard) for the first 3 years of owning her and never once was she destructive. She was a true Urban Gun Dog. I'm in IT and was lucky enough to work at home and being in Silicon Valley my employer let us bring dogs in to work when I had to go in the office. I taught my dog the whoa command on my coffee table. I would hide bumpers around the condo and tell her to go find them and she would bring them back every time. It was a daily exercise that she absolutely loved. But there is nothing like the drive she has to hunt. To this day once I turn down the dirt rd where we hunt pheasants she starts whining and running around back and forth in anticipation to get out in the field. I'm biased but I have never had a smarter dog, easiest to train, or one with such prey drive and intensity, but could turn it off in the house. I know there isn't much time left as she can't hear very well and she is getting slower but she still has the drive and wants to fetch tennis balls 24/7.
The only negative for the OP is that GSP's shed and it is a different type of hair so he may want to spend a couple days with one to test for an allergic reaction.

Oops. After reading through all the posts I see you already chose a poodle. Good luck and probably the best choice for your situation. You can't go wrong with any dog as long as it's trained and knows you are the boss.

I looked at both types of dogs and the allergic component was what stopped me every time. Both might be all right, but I can't afford to gamble on that.