A couple of years ago I came across a sweet little Simson 28ga box lock sxs that was made before 1925. It is an American market gun as it was imported by a dealer in Washington, DC (name engraved on the rib). I found the dealer's contact info buried in a drawer and gave him a call--it is still available and I am going to take a look in a couple of weeks.

I don't have any pics, but from memory it has a Greener crossbolt, splinter forend with ebony tip, ebony drop points, English stock, small frame, 28" barrels with ivory bead, scroll engraving (50%+ coverage, weighs around 6lbs, 14" LOP, nicely figured wood, and rates at about 90%. It looks to be a very solid, unmolested gun in a rare gauge. It is nothing like the standard grade Simsons that are on GI.

I have tried to research this gun and cannot find any comps. The price is around $4,500. Any info or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

If possible price it as a Sauer and reduce by about 25-30%. Simsons are great guns and the prewar guns should be first class.
Bob Jurewicz

Never seen a pre-war Simson in 28, and only a couple 20s. Kirby at Vintage Doubles has a contemporary of the gun you're looking at. http://www.vintagedoubles.com/catalog/?sort=4&process=fullview&gunID=1747 Keep in mind - that gun is a 12, far and away the most popular and frequently-encountered gauge in a German double.

sounds like a rare and wonderful gun. would love to see pictures.

Hopefully I will have some pictures soon. I am going based on memory, as I have not handled the gun in a long time. The gun was retailed by William Wagner & Sons in Washington, DC, and from what I read, he sold guns at the turn of the century, I am not sure when they went out of business. It is an early gun for sure and has a great balance and feel. Thanks for the info. I don't want to make a bad investment with my limited knowledge.

If the gun has been for sale for at least 2 years one would think they would move off of the $4500.00 price. But maybe that's why it's still there. Or make darn sure there isn't some kind of an issue with it.

Well, the price has varied over the years! Never a price tag on it at the shows, started at around $5k, went to $6.5K. I am working on trading my Pre-64 Model 12 20ga skeet that is 98% original and some cash. The fellow told me that cannot move collector guns at all and only brings a few out at the shows. I don't get the sense he is in a huge rush to sell it.

Agree with the above that anything other than a 12 or 16 from Simson is pretty rare. 28 would be extremely rare. I recently parted company with a prewar Sauer 20 imported by A&F in the 30's. It was initially tagged at something north of $4K. Less for a Simson because of the "brand value" edge to Sauer (although probably shouldn't be), but more for a 28 vs a 20. If it's an ejector gun, I'd say the price is not out of the ballpark. And I'd also guess, based on the weight of my Sauer (5 3/4), that your Simson 28 might be closer to 5 1/2 than 6.

20 bores were in the adverts along with 12, 16 having tube lengths from 26 to 30 inches in the scatterguns at 5 1/4 - 6 pounds. I would say a 28 bore would be in the lower end of this scale if not below in weight. Of course this is not a drilling, but the Modell's Nr. 33, 35, 36 were only advertised for 12 & 16. But the 28 bore would have been special order only and I'm curious how much effort Simson may have applied or if they sourced it. The mid 1920s was the heyday for Simson as they were racing cars, I believe Otto Reif was one of their drivers and some sort of manager, manufacturing weapons, bicycles and rubber baby buggy bumpers among other things. Hope to see some images.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Anyone who has a chance to visit Suhl should visit the Fahrzeug (vehicle) Museum to see the wide variety of things made by the Simpson Werk. They also loop a video about Simpson's history (in German). The Fahrzeug Museum is just down the street from the Waffen Museum.

"rubber baby buggy bumpers"

try writing that 3 times quickly!!

Yeah, lifted that off of Andy Griffith years ago when Barney was attempting to stump Opie on phrases like she sells sea shells on the sea shore and the like. I believe the rubber baby buggy bumpers was the one that Andy stumped ole Barn with. I'll have to watch it again to see.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Watchknut, I have inspected that gun, find the condition a bit marginal, and remember the bores to be unacceptable. It is not a pretty gun. I also remember the gun being a 30" gun. Where do you plan to see the gun next? I have seen it in Virginia. The prices the owner asks are ridiculous. I hope you can get him to move.

Eightbore, thank you! I was going off memory as I have not seen the gun in over a year, and never gave it a really thorough inspection. This makes my decision really easy, as I will take a pass and continue to look. I appreciate all of the input.

Don't let my interpretation sway your decision. If you like it, go for it. If the bores are good, the gun may have potential at the right price.

Note, too, that German guns tend to have a little more meat in the barrels. So, if whatever might be wrong with the bores isn't too far advanced, it'll probably stand up to some cleaning-up.

As I recall, there isn't much meat in those long thin 28 gauge barrels. I have done a lot of research on William Wagner and would love to own this gun, but found it unacceptable on face to face examination. I will try to give it another look.

Adam Stinson is offering a British SxS 28 gauge over on the FS forum for very little money that does not have any of the concerns here over the Simpson.

It might be worth a look.

RCC, I saw that last night and what a great little gun! Understanding that the Simson is an investment of $4,500+, I think that I am better saving my money and finding the one that is 100%. Thanks.

Fair enough - I was positing a generality, but an in-hand specific observation rules over the generality any day, of course.