Hi I'm a rookie at this but inherited a gun from my uncle who was a collector (mostly Ohio Muzzleloaders). I'd like to sell it but would first like to gain some info on it. It is a double-barrel 12 ga.( I think) with engraving. The barrel has Aug Wolf on it as well as Krupp Stahl. Any help?

Timothy,
Post photos, including clear photos of proofmarks, and you will be pleasantly surprised at what Axel and Raimey come up with.
Mike

Hello Timothy
Welcome to the site, you will find it most helpful.

If you can take digital pictures we will certainly assist
you in posting them here.

Do you know how to take the barrels off the action?

Again
Welcome
Mike

Thank you, I have photos but am unsure how to upload them to this site from my macbook.

Mike, thank you. I do have photos but am unsure how to upload them here. No, I do not know how to remove the barrels.

OK
Thought you might not know how to remove the barrels, after we see your pictures, we should be able to assist

As far as pictures

I do not know MAC
But this is what I know

Enroll in photobucket, it is FREE

www.photobucket.com

Put your pictures on there

Go to your album

Once there, put your cursor over photo you want to post

WAIT

Then some boxes (LINKS) will show under the picture

Click link in the box to the right of the IMG Code.

It will change to COPIED

Paste it here and hit submit and the picture will show

Mike

What you will be copying will look something like this

[IMG]http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j452/skeettx/MVC-040S.jpg[/IMG

I removed the last ] so the string would show

With the final ] in place it results in this

There is a Wolf gunmaker business in Suhl; at least as of about 10 years ago. If the gun is not from them, they may well have family history to help. If I recall a visit to their booth at the IWA show, they made several levels of quality, depending you the depth of your wallet and willingness to part with cash (pretty much as did all gunmakers).

You might find something on the net for them.

DDA

Ok I've uploaded them to photobucket but can't seem to be smart enough to paste them here. link is http://s1077.photobucket.com/albums/w462/osu2thdoc/

hope u can retrieve them from there
Thanks

It is a Kerner-Anson design with overhanging scears so it is probably from the 1920s or later, but it is after 1912.


This is an advert for a Kerner-Anson drilling and although the Kerner adaptation to the A&D design for all might not have been simultaneous, but the were close to the same time.


Shuck the forend and let's see the mark to see if it is a homegrown Wolf.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I'm currently away from home (and the gun) but will try and accomplish this early next week.

Thanks,

Ok how do I shuck the forend? and what am I looking for once I do?

Thanks

Remove the foreend, by pulling the latch under it. Without the foreend, if you break the gun open as for loading, the barrels will come off. Mind that both the foreend and the barrels dont come right off, but require first to be rotated against the action, and then pulled in the direction away from it (that doesn't sound perfectly clear, does it? but it's not real hard actually).

After the barrels are off, the flat portion of the barrels where they meet the action (a.k.a. the barrel flats) is then visible. The numerous marking on them contain most valuable data about the gun - take clear pics of them and post it here.

All - wouldn't it be nice if we had a sticky, "a complete beginner's guide to how to find out about that old shotgun" or something, providing clear instructions on what to photograph, how to remove the barrels, and how to take usable pics of the proof marks using the regular digital or phone camera?

yes that sort of sticky would be nice. accomplished the above w/o difficulty, thank you. Have uploaded additional photos to my photobucket album. Hope they are what is needed

http://s1077.photobucket.com/albums/w462/osu2thdoc/

I would guess it was made post WWI and before Sept. 1923 in Suhl. If those script initials are WK, Wilhelm Kelber was the tube knitter. With one Kelber being involved makes one wonder if the inverted K with respect to the Flusststahl krupp essen belongs to Gebrüder Kelber, which began in 1894 and then they split the sheet in 1927. By 1928 Wilhelm Kelber had his own firm and in 1929 Louis Kelber is listed also as having a Gewehrlauffabrik.

If I have the correct Wolf family line, Ernst August Wolf was born in Heinrichs on July 17th, 1853 to Wilhelm & Christine Wolf. He married Friedericke Völker and they had at least 1 son, Karl Wolf who was born on February 1893(expired Nov. 1st, 1971) and he should have attained the rank of master during the latter part of WWI. I would assume it was about this time that he married Gertrud Rosa Werner, so it is most probable that here we have a connection to the Werner gunmaking sourcing line. So that brings us the the tube maker RW or WR. If the owner of Aug. Wolf married a daughter of the Werner gunmaking family, it is possible that the stamp RW is for Robert Werner. It is a common stamp seen post WWI. But in the back of my mind I wonder if Gebrüder Rempt, which used a GR stamp, was rolling their own and if Walter Rempt might have used a WR stamp. Eliminating him from the tubemakers pool would reduce the number of knowns for the equations.

Now there was also a Albert Wilhlem Wolf which hung out his gunmaking shingle in 1908 according to their history page. Not sure just how they were related.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Wow, VERY informative! Thank you. It's nice to know some of the history of the piece. How do I find a value for it so that I can determine whether I want to part with it?

Regards,
Tim

Thumbing thru some DRGMs and I ran across a few for Ernst Kerner, which may be the origins or track the development of the Kerner-Anson innovation. A few terms I am unsure of:

selbstthätig - I'm sure I have some errors in spelling

Gebrauchsmuster Nr. 169054 - Drei aus dem Abzugsblech ange ordnete Hammerschlösser mit ansrechtstehenden Schlagsedern am Selbstspanner Dreiläufergewehr deren Mittelschloß selbstthätig gesichert und beim Entsichern die verbind von Schloßstange mit Abzug herstellt - Ernst Kerner Suhl in TH - January 27th 1902

Sicherungsklappe

Gebrauchsmuster Nr. 200945 - Unter Federdruck stehende, seitlich über springende Sicherungsklappe der Schloßstangen an Mehrlaufgewehren, die beim Vorgehen des am Stengel des Umstellers angelenkten Tragschiebers mit Zwischenstauge zurückgedrückt entsichert - Emil Kerner - May 5th 1903

Gebrauchsmuster Nr. 193622 of Feburary 2nd 1903 held by Emil Kerner was for some cartridge trap innovation

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

In the last 1/4 of 1907 Franz Funk & Ernst Kerner had DRGM 334677 for a type of ejector mechanism on tipping or breech-loading sporting weapons. This paring may have been the foundation for the short lived concern Kerner & Funk.


This boxlock is given as having Gabriel-Mossiers-Breslau atop the tubes as well as DRGM & AKAH(Albrecht Kind-Hunstig) on the floorplate. Just a guess, from the exterior I cannot seen any other innovation less the Kerner-Anson type screw at the top/rear of the frame. Since it has screw & accompanying pin at the bottom rear along with DRGM on the floorplate, then it may be surmised that this is an early variant of the Kerner-Anson design. Difficult to tell, but don't see the Nitro stamp on the side of the tube but it might be on the flats. If the sporting weapon doesn't wear the Nitro stamp then it would be pre-1912 and Kerner-Anson innovation may have been designed between 1900 & 1912.


Wilhelm Kind co-owner & factory superintendent circa 1907


Gabriel - owner of Paul Mossiers Breslau

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Gebrauchsmuster - DRGM - 531992 - Vom Schlossblech unabhängiges Nachspannschloss. Ernst Kerner, Suhl

Difficult to tell just from the verbiage, but DRGM 531992 circa 1911 issued to Ernst Kerner just might be our culprit.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse