My books are still packed away.

Thanks!

In this picture, can you identify the patent mark on the left side of the action flat?

Thanks!

All London but can't say on the patent.

Kind Regards

Raimey

Crowned V and GP are London proof per Nigel Brown's Volume Two.

Age? "Not For Ball" is not present, so prior to its use?

Hi MIke, I'm thinking the J.P. is James Purdey and and other is
W.& C. Scott so we have two patents,a Scott spindle with the Purdey double underbite. Pre-1875. JMHO
Terry

Thanks Terry.

I forgot the double underbites were a Purdey patent.

I have been playing with black rifles the last few years and my memory for proofs was never very good.

I'm heading in the other direction. The absence of the "not for ball" and the 12b and/or 14 on the flats make me think it is not in the pre-1875 window, but rather on the other side of the 1875-1887 threshold. If I knew more about what I was looking at, who was alleged to have made it, etc, I'd be more confident.

Pre-1875? Weren't they still beating each other with clubs at that point?

All jokes aside, how many breechloading guns existed in Great Britain pre-1875? Lang had a patent. Lefacheau (sp?) although French, may have licensed something. Manton? Purdey?

Odds have to be in favor of a later date unless you explain that this a pinfire or something else in the novel/interesting category.

Low patent use numbers lead me to agree with Terry.

Not sure when "Not For Ball" came in but I have a Mortimer with a definite date of 1881 with similar proof marks. It does not have then "Not For Ball" designation either.

1875-1887 for ''Not for Ball.''

In the 19th century British system, low patent numbers have no relationship to year of filing. They started each year with patent #1 and worked up from there. So #10,000-1870 is older than #399-1890. You need to know the year as well as the number to make sense of those marks.

I can not find either of these patent numbers. I searched all 7 volumes of "Patents for Inventions of Small Arms" and all 3 volumes of Nigel Brown. Hopefully some one else can find them.

Pete

Those numbers associated with the patent figures are probably use numbers?

That is what I thought also, not the actual patent number.

BTW - This shotgun is a Charles Boswell 12ga hammergun

Note that the "Not for Ball" was only applied if the barrels had some degree of choking.

Ah.....that makes sense. The Mortimer is essentially cylinder and tighter cylinder. Is the Boswell cylinder/cylinder?

I have no idea. I am just helping out a guy who likes black rifles but inherited this one and knows nothing about it. I have passed on what the kind folks here have told me.

PS In a completely different story, I stumbled on a gentleman today with another Boswell. This one is a Try Gun!

He also has a Boss Try Gun, but that is another story.