Went to my local FedEx office yesterday to ship a gun from CA to the midwest and ran into a new glitch. The shipment was a simple Spanish boxlock .410, going to a smith for repair. Nothing on the box to indicate that it contained a gun. Because it's a relatively low value gun, I decided to ship FedEx Ground, but to insure for more than $500. They told me that anything going ground with insurance at $500 or higher required that they open the box and inspect the contents. So I said "let's insure it for $499." They still wanted to inspect it. I declined because I had several hours invested in very carefully and securely packing the gun, and opening the package would destroy the integrity of the packing (lots of rigid foam insulation panels, box inside another box, etc.). They would not let me ship it without opening it in front of them. The solution was to send it FedEx Express (air) with as much insurance as I wanted, no inspection necessary.
Anybody else had this problem with FedEx?
I didn't think FedEx would accept firearms for Ground Shipping, from private parties. Only from FFL holders. H,ICBW
Jim is correct;
FedEx Gun shipping Regs;
http://www.cgwgun.com/shipping/fedex.aspxFedEx Ground will transport firearms (excluding handguns), but only between: *
1.
Licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, licensed collectors, law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or of any department or agency thereof, and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency, or political subdivisions thereof; or
Express requires only one have a license (Fed regs of course require the recipient to have the FFL);
FedEx EXPRESS rules: Firearms
*
FedEx Express can only accept and deliver firearms between areas served in the U.S. under the following conditions: (1) you agree to tender shipments of firearms to us only when either the
shipper or recipient is a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer or licensed collector and is not prohibited from making such shipments by local, state or federal regulations; (2) the shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable state law
Of course USPS would have accepted it and sending it registered would have made sure it arrived safely.
Dave K, the issue was not whether the box contained a gun, because they did not ask that. Their issue was strictly with the insurance value vs shipping mode.
I think the shipment met the rest of their own rules, because it was not a handgun and it was going to an FFL (but that question did not come up either). This was at a FedEx corporate location and the manager even checked his manual on the isnurance question.
USPS would have added another hour to my transaction time because of the lines at the post office this week. In my location, FedEx is a whole lot more convenient and quicker than USPS.
In my experience, a lot depends on the FedEx employee accepting the package. I had an employee tell me about the 500.00 opening-the-package limit (I insured that one for 499.00 at his suggestion), and then the next time I went to the counter, I mentioned this and another guy on duty waved his hand in the air and said, "AAAH. Don't worry about it."
Also, if you read the next paragraph in the regs cited by DaveK under the "ground" ruling, it will state that a firearm is accepted for shipping from an individual to an FFL for the purposes of repair and/or customizing.
My experience is that it depends on the wench behind the counter.
My experience is that it depends on the wench behind the counter.
It was the manager, working the counter because they were so busy.
Quote from Fed Ex regulations above:
" licensed collectors"
R.E: Shipping requirements.
If any of you ever needed a reason to get a C&R FFL here it is in the Fed Ex regulations. Since USPS doesn't discriminate either I just put a copy of my C&R license in with whatever I ship.
Jim
I think the fact that they didn't know what was in there (it my understanding that its not legal to put anything saying there is gun in the package on the outside of it(I had a pretty intense "discussion' with a post mistress (?) over her insisting that I do have it on the outside of the package- I won and but don't go to that PO any more)),if they insure it and its lost,when you tell them it was gun they will not pay as you broke their rules.
Their rules are screwed up,they want both ends having a FFL for ground,yet will abide by federal rules on express (the recipient has to have FFL)
I have had a lot of packages come to my home last couple weeks,like many here I suspect.The ones FedEx and UPS 'toss off the truck" are everywhere from end of driveway to by the garage.My mail girl puts it safely in my garage. I don't trust UPS or FedEx for any shipping,way to many thieves and low paid workers who don't have to answer for their actions.But thats me
Hey Dave:
I guess I'm lucky to live where I do live. The UPS and Fed EX employees leave packages placed (not tossed) by the front door and also ring the bell. I usually have to sign for USPS items so my postal delivery gal rings the bell and waits.
Jim
I always ship my guns through the Post Office. One lady counter clerk always makes me sign some sort of official declaration that says I'm a manufacturer or something (obviously not meant for individuals). And, I always strike through the statements that are not true and sign the form; seems to suit her just fine. Sometimes it is smarter to go around the problem than to argue...Geo
Forgot about the Christmas rush when I reccomended USPS, but at other times of the year they are great.
That form is a 1508,its for manufactures and dealers,no problem signing it as long as you are one.If not,who knows?
http://www.usps.com/forms/_pdf/ps1508.pdf
Yes, I believe that is the form, Dave. I strike everything after the 1st two words and it makes the clerk happy for some reason...Geo
Here's the latest Fedex Express and Ground Tariffs:
Fedex Ground tariff. An individual, not licensed, can ship a long gun to a licensee, etc, and get it returned, too:
FedEx Ground will transport and deliver firearms (excluding handguns) as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release, driver release or indirect delivery.
FedEx Ground cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D.
Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Ground is required to notify FedEx Ground that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.
The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
FedEx Ground will transport small-arms ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Hazardous Materials section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as hazardous materials. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.
FedEx Ground will not accept for transport handguns, assembled or disassembled.
And FedEx Express (overnight air) - Used for shipping mostly handguns
FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:
Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or
Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).
If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.
Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.
Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.
The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.
The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.
FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.
I suggest you get an insurance policy like CollectInsure.com that covers shipping since the UPS and FedEx insurance will not cover unique items or antiques, only firarms available commercially.
I've had better luck with FedEx, have a free account, weigh my packages, print my own labels on a computer printer and just dump the box at the local store that used to be Kinkos, no questions asked. With UPS firearms must go to a company service counter, not the UPS stores or any non-UPS owned storefront, and the UPS clerks are nosy, often ask questions, make up rules. It stopped for a while when I wrote a letter complaining of them, but I still had to tell them to ask the manager before inflicting some new stupidity on me.
And the USPS has broken and lost stuff I shipped and ordered, while I've had zero UPS and Fedex losses.
If you ship through USPS Registered they don't lose "stuff"
UPS has a rep for frequent breakage and stone walling insurance payments in the musical instrument world. They have also broken more than one firearm that I know of, one for a poster here.
I have shipped a number of firearms thru FedEx and have never had a loss or breakage. Just has to go to a FFL and be signed for. NBD to me.
Of course I pack stuff for a trip to Mars too, but I've had some thinly clad and fragile things make it to me by way of FedEx. Cudda just been luck but they made it.
JMO of course
Dr.WtS
Not firearms related but I have had two antique items rendered useless by Fed Ex. Both could have been packaged better, but there was really no reason for them to have been so roughly handled. Actually the one damaged the worst was better packed than the other. So far have not had any similar item damaged by the USPS & they usually have a better rate.
My experience has been the USPS just doesn't throw the packages out of the truck in the manner of either Fed Ex or UPS, but seems to handle them more reasonable. It may of course all depend upon some particular terminal the packages travel through, but my experience has made me treat Fed Ex as if they had the plaque.
"Plaque"??? Is this something I should know about when I go out there??
FWIW the general internet info that I have seen over the years is just the opposite of 2-piper's experience. Far the majority of the guitar people, with some petty fragile and expensive items, simply will not do biz with UPS.
Personally their trucks are too ugly for me to consider using them.
Dr.WtS