No longer on the sponsors list.

I suspect that Cabela's is a cutting back, way back on any expenses. I also suspect many of thier Gun Libraries will be closed. I can certainly see that they have cut back the inventory of them in the two Texas stores.

I've heard the rumor about GL's closing. However, I know that Tom Bryant from Sidney recently spent about a week in one of the stores training a new GL guy, which would indicate that they're certainly not all going to close. What I'd guess is happening is that due to the economy, they're simply not buying as many used guns as they used to. I expect there will be more empty slots on the racks in many of the GL's.

I saw some traffic on this recently and it seemed to bear out what Larry says. It seemed from the info I saw that Cabelas had perhaps moved too far and too fast in their purchasing of used guns without the proper market knowledge present in their buyers. When they then tried to pass along their "bad buys" (too much spent) to their customers, the result was apparently terrific inventories of guns they could not sell. Additionally, the little criminal episode committed by some of their personnel in the gun libraries may be having something also to do with current decisions.

If they end up in dire straits.........they have a A&S Sporting gun that I would take off there hands! I haven't made an offer for fear they might accept.

What little experience I've had with the Cabela's Gun Library and it's staff through emails, telephone conversations, and three or four deals where I sent money, was shipped guns/rifles, then sent each and every one back due to big condition issues that weren't initially disclosed -- where the staff have (all but one instance) seemed ignorant AND arrogant (perhaps in attempt to cover for the ignorance..?) -- it's left me with the sense that the market won't be losing much if Cabela's ditches the Gun Library effort.

The fraud/theft/criminal events from within their own staff (in retrospect) don't surprise me a bit.


Did WE make THEM mad..?
eh!





Cheers
Tinker

I watch GunsInternational each day for new listings and from the number of new guns being listed by Cabela's it would be difficult to recognize a cutback.
Bob Jurewicz

The experience, knowledge, and people skills vary widely in the different stores. With those less cooperative Outfitters I have had great luck by continuing to ask the same question until I get what I want. Certainly many of the GL people are knowledgeable and helpful.

I am amazed by what a high percentage of the stores have neither bore gauge or wall thickness gauge. How do you buy a doublegun made in 1917 without knowing the wall thickness or at least the bore diameter? If it is English AND you have the proof charts AND you have a bore diameter guage you can at least tell if it is in proof. Lord knows on the American guns.

Having said all that they have a good website with some of the most informative writeups on the internet. Certainly not up to Puglisi or Galazan but better than most.

The inspection period is reassuring. Then your maximum loss is two shipping charges.

Best,

Mike

Any one who places an ad on the web is monitoring the number of click-throughs. In other words, how much traffic did my advertising dollar generate. It is simple economics. Only spend on what generates traffic.

Pete

Cabela's St. Louis GL seems to have all racks full, and I haven't seen any signs of a cutback.

Unfortunately, earlier this year they lost an excellent GL manager, Steve Barzee. I haven't bought any shotguns there recently, but had bought several from him.

Some of thei inventory turns quickly, when priced attractively. On the other hand, I've seen shotguns that stayed there for more than a year. Recently, they have reduced the prices on some of the slow movers.

I was in the Kansas City store a few weeks ago, and thought they had more competitive used gun pricing in that GL.

Overall, I like Cabela's, and shop there at least monthly.

JERRY

While I have agree the GL is pretty much a joke unless you can go there in person and are able to find a error in the buyers favor it is a very small part of their total business.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.Fil...GU9MQ==&t=1

I suspect its a business they are in because others are and it brings in buyers for the rest of the retail items.
I have never been in one and would go if there was one here in sales tax free NH,but I don't even bother to look at the listings on line anymore unless I need a good laugh.

I've made several purchases form them that I considered 'good' buys.

Last year at Las Vegas they spent top $ to buy some guns from a CA side by side collector (member).... I have noticed that they seem to ptting a lot more guns on the sale rack, maybe trying to reduce the odd things out of their inventory.

A close friend has made several good deals from them, the best was the parker listed as a repro that was actually a late Remington Parker. I don't remember the grade, but it was one that was never even made as a repro. (sorry Iam not a Parker Guy, I am just a poor boy)

If you think there prices are high, you should see the prices I saw last year at the Las Vegas Bass Pro shop....

Jerry

I was in the Wheeling WV store last week. The GL was a joke and the entire store was lacking merchandise to buy. Plenty of people in the store just not much to buy. Saved me money which I am sure to spend soon on another must buy gun. I think they are cutting back but in this economy that make sense.

The Ft Worth and Buda GLs are half empty, or they were a few weeks ago. The Basspro Fine Gun Room in Grapevine closed. Overall I like Cabela's and have made a few really good buys.

My most recent "buy" from Cabelas was an Iver Johnson (arrived today) Skeet-er in .410. The gun was advertised as "rough" I bought the gun over the phone from Scarborough ME while at the Owatonna GL. (Also bought a philly fox 16 ga. from MN) I got the gun and rough it was but I asked 3 specific things-bore condition, lock-up (on face?) and if it worked. Answer to all 3 was excellent bores, locked up perfect and yes it works. Well 2 out of 3 ain't bad. The bores are pristine, the gun locks up beautifully, but it doesn't work... Some "gunsmith" tried to make a cocking rod for it but failed miserably, so now I'm in search of a replacement. PS they mailed me the cocking rods via overnight express after they discovered that they forgot to put them back in... they arrived today at my house also.

Anybody know where i can get a cocking rod for this extractor gun as Numerich is back ordered...

Otherwise I have had plenty of pleasent dealings with the Owatonna MN store and give them kudos

I'll say this - it seems like 75% of the guns they list are 'sold'. I wonder why they don't remove them. Some have been listed 'sold' for months.

Greg, what you say might be true if you pull up the inventory from a specific store that's a little slow in managing its own website. However, if you pull up the general categories in which this group has the greatest interest (American/English/European shotguns), it looks like you might have left out a decimal point. Fewer than 1 in 10 marked "sale pending"; probably more like 1 in 15. I've seen other dealers specializing in doubles with a much higher percentage of "sold" or "sale pending" on their lists.

I also like Cabela's. That being said, since I have to drive 2 hours to get to their closest store, I always call in advance to make sure someone I've dealt with previously will be working. The GL's where I've bought all have at least one guy who's reasonably sharp on doubles. They might not stand out as experts in this crowd, but then some of us aren't all that good on, say, Winchester levers or Colt SAA's--and they deal in those as well. If you're working for Tony Galazan, your doublegun knowledge ought to be deeper, but you don't need to know much about other guns.

Cabela's is basically a dry goods retailer listed on the New York Stock Exchange as CAB, currently priced @ $14.92, which is 12 times forward (2010) earnings of $1.26; the 2009 earnings were $1.24 per share. This company is making money even in a down retail market.

Since summer of 2007, wife Nancy and I have put 52,000 miles on our Road Trek from Illinois to Maine, Florida, New Orleans, Michigan's UP, Montana, California, twice to Alaska, and almost everywhere in between. We always stop at the Cabela's and Bass Pros and Gander Mountains along the way, and I ask questions...

About this time last year, after what the drive-by media was widely reporting (make that speculating) about the 2008 "disaster" of Xmas non-shopping, I discovered by interviewing check-out persons at Bass Pro and Cabela's that they had a good Xmas-2008 rush with extra registers open, etc...and talking to the guys in the Gun Library (flashing my Parker credentials) I was surprised that sales of sporting goods, not just camp clothing, was strong. So I checked out CAB--then about $6.00 per share--but didn't buy any shares as CAB pays no dividends...

Woulda, coulda, shoulda, because it is now up 150%--$6.00 to $14.92--and has been as high as $17.73 this year!

Point being that it is pretty hard for some gun crank to observe the Gun Library at one selected store on one day (or over a period of time)or surf the Internet postings to draw conclusions about the business prospects of a NYSE listed company. There is a bigger picture: Ask yourself what a full-size mount of an elephant charging costs, or the lions, or the aquariums or the upkeep on the fish, or the animal mountain in the bigger stores. The hole-in-the-wall Gun Library is a "loss leader" to entertain retail buyers of camo clothing, ammo, duck decoys, deer stands, fishing stuff, common guns, woman's clothing, shoes and socks and boots, and assorted bling. The real issue in re: Cabela's success or failure this year has to do with these factors:

Management fright that the 2009 Xmas sales rush was going to be less on a same store basis than 2008...which led to...

Anticipating that an increasing percentage of customers who had just started to feel the recession in fall of 2008, yet still went shopping on their reserves for Xmas 2008, had during 2009 seen their unemployment expire and then be extended. With 10% unemployment built into the economy and a static CPI (no SSI increase, no automatic bumps for other pensions coupled to the CPI, or union contracts so linked) it was foreseeable that Xmas 2009 shopping would be down. Thus management bought less inventory for the Xmas 2009 rush, which, in turn, gave shoppers less incentive to buy, and the shelves are now relatively empty for post-Xmas sales. You can't sell what you don't have.

I predict that same store gross sales for 2009 will be down from 2008, while the investment pundits predict forward earnings--the bottom line--to be up a paltry two cents, which results from savings generated by reduced staff (more unemployment)and reduced interest costs occasioned by less inventory financed. None of this has anything to do with the price or quality of guns in the Gun Library.

Did you know that Cabela's owns its own captive bank so it can get funds at almost zero-% interest from the Fed, and issue MMCDs insured by the FDIC for virtually nothing-% interest and turn around and issue their own credit card with a high rate of interest so customers can charge stuff they really don't need and can't pay for when the buying impulse arises. In other words, a large portion of sales rung up do not involve the customer paying anything at point of sale. If there is a problem lurking behind the scene at Cabela's it is in the quality of their charge card receivables, not the quality of the guns in the Gun Library. But consider this:

A year ago you could have decided not to buy a $6,000 gun from the Cabela's Gun Library, but bought Cabela's stock instead. You could sell your CAB stock for a long term capital gain (15% tax rate) at today's market price on the NYSE for about $15,000. As Paul Harvey would say, if he were still alive, "That's the rest of the story." EDM

So......why did they pull there sponsorship...not enough bang for the buck?

Go type in your average gun - Browning 1885, 1886, or Win Model 70 and the majority are 'sold'.

It seems like both Cabelas and BassPro are closing some of their "fine gun rooms". I don't recall which Cabelas and BassPros are doing this as I've been to so many different ones in the last 4-5 months, I can't keep them all straight. But some were already closed.

One of Bass Pro's newer stores is Rancho Cucamonga CA. Been open about 2+ years (maybe 3) and the gun room is now closed. I went in at Christmas to grab a couple of things for duck hunting and the store was packed with both customers and merchandise, with deep lines at all the registers. Very high prices on most commodity items, like ammo and pocket knives. The old gun room was absolutely full of people, taking some sort of gun safety class (probably just so that they can buy a handgun in CA; not a CCW class).

I have only purchased one old gun from Cabela's, and that was from Steve Barzee. Gun was as described, negotiated price was fair, shipping was prompt, and I had a 30-day FIRING inspection period. What's not to like? My only gripe about Cabela's is that they now feel compelled to charge sales tax at point of purchase on shipments into CA, even though they have no business presence in CA. So, not only am I no longer buying any guns from Cabela's but I'm not buying boots or vests or ammo, either. Yes, I know CA has a use tax requirement on out-of-state purchases, but there is no legal requirement for the merchant to collect that tax at purchase. I think Cabela's shot themselves in the foot on this one.

" My only gripe about Cabela's is that they now feel compelled to charge sales tax at point of purchase on shipments into CA, even though they have no business presence in CA. So, not only am I no longer buying any guns from Cabela's but I'm not buying boots or vests or ammo, either. Yes, I know CA has a use tax requirement on out-of-state purchases, but there is no legal requirement for the merchant to collect that tax at purchase."

Replacement:
Does this mean that you can email or call a Cabellas outside Calif. and they will charge you a California tax to be sent to Calf.?
Best,
John

This being a BB focused on doubles, I decided to try a few of them as opposed to rifles. Under the "American Shotgun" category, Cabela's lists 52 Parkers (not including Reproductions), sale pending on 1; 29 Foxes, sale pending on 1.

John, they told me that their new policy is that if they ship anything to a CA address, they charge CA sales tax on that shipment. That adds 8.25% minimum to 10.75% maximum to the price of whatever you buy, depending on delivery address, plus shipping charges. Adding 10% to the price of any gun, plus the exorbitant FFL and DROS fees in CA ($85 minimum to $250 at some shops) means that it just does not make sense to buy from Cabela's unless they are absolutely the only source for what you need. I think their new policy is a reaction to a recent attempt by the state of New York to collect sales tax at the point of purchase on internet sales. CA has been pretty aggressive on this issue, but so far has not been able to prevail in court. It is getting so bad in CA that some local FFL's feel compelled to collect sales tax when they do an FFL transfer on a private party transaction. But, at least we have nice weather.

I cannot say that I feel your pain, as a recently disgraced politoco said.

A couple years ago, this scenario took place.

Maine has a sales tax. Don't know the number but it adds to the purchase so that some libs can collect.

New Hampshire has no such dumbass situation. So far !!!! Many Mass. residents moving here and tainting the thinking.

LL Bean is a Maine institution that is open 24/7 for the sportsman. Been there forever and a great store and company.
A few years ago, they opened an outlet in North Conway, NH. Many come from surrounding Socialist States ( Maine, Vermont, Mass. and even N.Y,)to shop as there is no sales tax.

Then, one bright day, a couple of suits showed up and told the manager of the N Conway store, that they were from Maine and that he, the manager, had to start charging any Maine resident, that was buying from his store, the Maine sales tax and remitting it to Maine.

The manager contacted the N. H. Governors office for guidance.

The New Hampshire Governor sent a message to the Maine Governor.

If any Maine agents dared to present themselves in New Hampshire as officials, they would be arrested by the New Hampshire State Police and prosecuted.

That was the end of that crap !!!
Best.
John

If Cabelas has any physical connection to California then they can force the collection of sales tax if they do not then California cannot force the collection. This physical connection can include a sales location, distribution center or salesperson.

US Supreme Court ruling in the Bellas Hess case in 1967.

I am well aware of the legal situation. Cabela's has admitted to me that they have no physical presence in CA, and thus cannot be compelled by CA to collect sales tax on shipments into CA. Their stores are responding to an edict from their corporate office, which is apparently scared witless by recent cases in NY state. I have told them that I will no longer purchase from them, even though I like them and their product selection. They seem unfazed by my decision. I have learned over the years that many corporate tax departments and executive teams seem to suffer from an acute case of cranial-anal impaction.

I just recieved three 1 day coupons for Budget rental cars. Evidently, Budget was inappropriately collecting a surtax at their LAX rental location and was sued in a class action. The surtax was something about LAX, but the location of the rental business was off-airport and not subject to the tax. I happened to have rented an Expedition from them for over a week to go on a hunt last year. I think Cabelas is openning themselves up for a similar suit.

John, Delaware also has no tax on most items. People flock there from neighboring states to purchase some large dollar items, and whatever, tax free. On the one road leading into Delaware, there is a banner going across the road stating "Welcome to Delaware, Home of the Tax Free Shopping."
I believe how Delaware complied with this issue was that as a non resident of Delaware, you are supposed to report the items monetary worth when doing your income tax. No one does, but they covered themselves.

Could you shed a little light on the employee criminal episode at the gun library? I was not aware of the case and I frequent a number of them.

I Googled this up:

http://nwitimes.com/news/local/article_22ecb481-4b2f-5f5f-9564-604ab7cc8ed2.html

Best,

Mike

Yikes. Hammond is one of the stores I've dealt with, but not until very recently. Thanks very much for the link. I guess that store has really been sterilized by now.

I live in PA but close to Delaware and they charged me PA sales tax on a purchse that I had sent to a Delaware FFL.(PA & Delaware have over the counter recipricity for long guns). They said that they had to because that was where my credit card was from. I really the wanted the gun so I ate it but it sure rubbed me the wrong way.

ROMAC--I think you got robbed on the sales tax. If you had a gun shipped in to a Delaware FFL from out of state, I'm sure no tax is due. The reciprocity you speak of has to do with Pa and DE residents being able to buy firearms in both states. It has nothing to do with collecting out of state sales tax. Do you really believe they remitted your tax money to Harrisburg? If you have a gun shipped in to Pa. from out of state--you pay no sales tax unless it's from a store that has a business presence in your state--like Cabela's!! If it's coming from a private seller--NO tax is due on that deal either. Now--most states want you to declare purchases made out of state on your state income tax forms and pay the tax. That deal is up to you. I think you were hosed!!

I'm telling you their policy was that my credit card was for PA, and they have the Hamburg store so they were charging me sales tax regardless of where it was shipped to. And they did.

OK--it's a Cabelas gun. I understand. Would they charge you tax if you purchased a gun from me and I shipped it to DE?

There is very large gun store right over the border in Maine that will, for NH residents,after paying for the gun in the store,drive it over the bridge to a small office they keep and do the paper work there.The NH residents then avoid the sales tax !

If you have a gun shipped there is no sales tax, most big auction houses know this some others have to be reminded.

Bill I know when I order a gun from an out-of-state Cabelas they charge me Texas sales tax and they state it is because Texas law requires it since they have stores in Texas.

If I bought a gun from you and you shipped it to me I would not have to pay sales tax.

Best,

Mike

I recently purchased a gun from Cabelas in Mo. Montana does not have sales tax and they did not charge me any sales tax. I for one, like their stores, their Gun Libraries, and their other merchandise and I enjoy the "museum" of trophies in many stores. I know that all employers would love to have experts in all fields. I could probably help them with old shotguns, but I would fall flat with Colts, Winchesters, and more modern Items.

Mike, I believe that rule applies across the board: if a corporation has a physical presence in a state in which you buy an item from them, whether from their physical store or from their catalog, any other store, etc, then they have to collect sales tax in that state.

Just what are "Parker Credentials" pray tell. Do they also exist for: L.C. Smiths, A.H. Fox.LeFever, Ithaca and other American mfg.'d double guns??RWTF

Sadly, Ed (EDM) is no longer around to tell us...

Ed Muderlak's published Parker related books were:
Parker Guns "The Old Reliable"
Parker Guns: Shooting Flying & the American Experience
Parker Brothers: Knight of the Trigger

as well as Parker related articles in Double Gun Journal including an article in Winter 1999 regarding S.A. "Tuck" Tucker's AAH Pigeon Gun

His Parker Pages contributions are here
https://parkerguns.org/pages/Parker%20Pages%20Library/index.html

Did I somehow miss 12 years of posts in this thread?

No AGS, Foxy resurrected a 12 year old thread. Sometimes it makes sense to do that, because there is a lot of good and pertinent information in the archives. Other times it makes little apparent sense at all.

David Trevaillon (Crossed Chisels) is still here up in Maine though he told me he's given up on working on stocks and donated his tools to a younger guy who still has the enthusiasm. He's worked on a ton of Parkers and wrote some articles about them.

AGS, this is probably one of those "rapture" moments where the dead arise. It portends something or another.

Indeed- I have all 3 of Ed'd great and most informative books on the Parker and all the mystique thereof. RWTF

I am amazed by what a high percentage of the stores have neither bore gauge or wall thickness gauge. How do you buy a doublegun made in 1917 without knowing the wall thickness or at least the bore diameter? If it is English AND you have the proof charts AND you have a bore diameter guage you can at least tell if it is in proof. Lord knows on the American guns.

I'm more amazed that these stores and many, many who are selling SxS have no idea there are gauges to measure such things and the importance of the results.

There are car dealers who cannot tell the transmission from the transfer case. The world is replete with ignorant(and dishonest) salesmen of all flavors of goods. I agree it is helpful when a dealer, of anything, is knowledgeable and honest. But, we know there are many who do not fall into those two categories. So, it behooves us to have our own gauges, and to be knowledgeable enough not to be "snowed". Every gun we may become interested in should be approached with skepticism, regardless how nice it looks at first glance.

These gun dealers who are happy with being ignorant of the important things on a vintage shotgun aren't doing themselves any favor. And, when they have a restrictive return policy (ring any bells?) it should throw up red flags all around. It's always falls to the buyer to have wisdom, and keep emotions in check.

What it boils down to is maybe the most repeated line in commerce ............caveat emptor (let the buyer beware).

The local Cabelas had a walk thickness gauge when the store opened a few years back, but staff in the gun library had no idea how to use it.

Fortunately, for the most part, the vast majority of shotguns do not get honed out. Most shooters don't have the tools or knowledge to do it themselves, and most won't pay a professional to hone a common field grade shotgun. And those that are honed are not often honed out to a point that makes them dangerous to shoot with commonly used loads. The reason for that is that most barrel pitting is usually not as deep as it looks. And it becomes even less likely that a set of barrels will become deeply pitted and honed out multiple times over the life of an average shotgun. Another factor is that most American guns tend to have thicker barrel walls than a light English upland game gun, so any minor honing or polishing of the bores over time is less likely to make them dangerously thin. There are exceptions, and I'm certainly not suggesting that it isn't important to know barrel wall thickness when possible. It is good to know that a gun may have been honed thin before you spend thousands of dollars on a purchase. However, the huge number of guns sold and subsequently used without wall or bore measuring is proof that it isn't as critical as some would have us believe.

Thin barrel walls do make them less resistant to dents. But we are all probably much more at risk from a rupture due to a bore obstruction from things like stuck base wads, ice or snow, mud, wasp nests, etc. The last shotgun blow-up Thread we saw here involved an L.C. Smith that had an obvious (after the fact) defect in the steel of the chamber, in a place that would have been impossible to detect by any sort of measuring. The presence of a single large inclusion in the steel between the chambers demonstrated that metallurgical analysis of any other part of that barrel would have likely shown that it was perfectly safe to shoot. That gun was probably used for decades without incident until a load was fired that produced pressure sufficient to cause the weak point at the chamber inclusion defect to rupture. I suppose that gun may have failed if it had been tested by a Proof House. Or perhaps the shell fired produced even more pressure than a Proof Load. It sure caused a lot of hand wringing and stressful conjecture for some. We hear a lot more preaching about the importance of checking wall thickness than simply frequently checking for any bore obstructions, which is much more easily done with a quick visual inspection on a break open double versus pumps or autoloaders. Several years ago, I saw a groundhog raiding my garden, and quickly grabbed a break open 20 gauge single shot I leave out in my garage for such occasions. I loaded a shell and poked the gun around the corner of the building, but something told me to stop as I was about to pull the trigger. I withdrew and unloaded, and was somewhat surprised to find that the bore was plugged solid with a pretty substantial mud dauber wasp nest. I'm pretty sure firing that gun would have turned out badly. I now stick a piece of bright green painters masking tape over the muzzle of my garage gun to keep the critters out.

yeah, but...

https://vicknairgunsmithing.blogspot.com/search?q=wall+thickness

The CABELA's store in St. Louis now has many fewer firearms in the Gun library, than in the distant past. Perhaps only 10% of the inventory they had 6 years ago. I used to purchase 3 to 5 guns a year there. Now, I haven't found anything interesting or reasonably priced in the past three years. ZERO. Since the merger with Basspro, this store has gone way down hill. It is also located in a failing shopping center in West St. Louis County. Very sad!