doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Patterning a gun for Helice / Pigeons

I am going to pattern my Purdey for shooting Helice and Pigeons. What distance should I shoot the pattern board from?

Maybe ask the loader.........I do

Paul Melton (mel5141) could provide the most guidance of anyone here that I know of.

If the birds are released at 28 yards, I’d start there

Oh boy,.... I received a text from my fine Southern Farmer/Gentleman friend, about this post, requesting that I ring in.....

I will probably regret this but will give it a go.... When I shot my first flyers, 50+ years ago as a College freshman, the gun selection was a good bit more standardized among the top shots.....
That being because most all shooters arrived in the Ring from being ATA Trap All Americans, most/many shooting their dedicated O/U doubles guns..... mostly factory fixed IM/F 30 and 32" tubes.
Scattering of English/Italian SxS and a smaller number of vintage American SxS trap guns (mostly 21's and Parkers) POI generally ran 3" to around 8-9" high at @40 yards. A few 15" high guns were in use by some very successful champions even then. SxS guns made up probably around 15%, certainly, less than 20% of the guns on the grounds.

I'm still shooting Flyers at most of the major American venues ( just returned yesterday from a well known 8 ring layout in a Southern state... most all of the TOP GUNS in attendance) The variety of guns and the decision of what a "Pigeon Gun" is today is much BROADER.
There is a much bigger difference in individual gun choices among today's best shots. O/U guns dominate ( one SxS vintage hammer double on the grounds this weekend vs. 88 O/U , and no autos.) Guys coming from the Sporting clay world tend to shoot a flatter patterning gun, dead on to 6" high POIs. The other end of the spectrum has guns that are Adjustable rib 32" Trap guns that print 15 or more inches above the point of aim.

Who is right? both of them .... winners over 3 thirty bird races this weekend were a mix of both styles of guns/shooters.
Chokes remain mostly what would constitute IM/F constrictions, and choke tubed guns almost universally sport constrictions of .025 bottom and .035 top barrel. 32" barrels make up 90+% of the guns used.

I tend to think of Helice as a totally different game, similarities are simply a 2 shot gun and a boundary fence.... The most successful American shooters shoot a Sporting type of O/U with 32" barrels and choke tubes. POI is generally flat to slightly above Point of aim (POA)
Chokes in the IM- LtF first shot and mostly Full second barrel. The USHA National championship is in Dallas next weekend, I'll bet the winning gun will likely fall pretty close to what I described, with the exception that a Sporting type of Semi auto (almost certainly a Beretta A400 series) may well be contention.
I don't speak in absolutes , and there can certainly be exceptions , but I am pretty damn observant , and what I have written here is based on close observation, not speculation, nor one time exceptions....

I hope this helps you get the maximum enjoyment from your time in the rings, whether your gun choice is a lovely vintage piece with provenance, or the latest, endlessly adjustable, modern, machine made competition model.

Good shooting to you all.

Michael Ray Forehand in his book "Advanced Competition Shotgunning" wrote that the "Live Bird" traps are 31 yards from the shooter. When the bird is released "if" the shooter is fast he will get his first shot at the bird six feet from the trap. That would be 33 yards. If he misses the second shot would most likely be around 40 yards.
I highly recommend this book to any serious Helice / Pigeon shooter.

I'm sure some us have heard of the infamous "slide". Forehand must have explained that. Great book by the way.

The shooting line is 26 meters (28 yards) from the throwers, the fence is 23 yards past the throwers.
I pattern mine at 35 yards, I shoot IM/IM from the 26.

Paul knows what he is talking about. I know him from years ago.

I think I shot with him years ago at Harry Goodeau ranch.

( Plato’s brothers, Fred Munch, Doyle Corder, Jerry Labarber, )


John Boyd

Not necessarily. If you run five straight from the closest peg you then move back, making the distance farther. This continues each time you run five straight.


With your 33 yard assessment you assume the bird is going straight away from the shooter. While that often is the case it is not always. Pigeons may go, and often do, in any direction when leaving the trap, including towards the shooter. I've seen them missed at ten yards.