doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Dram Equivalent

I am trying to load some 20ga shells using Hodgdon Pyrodex RS. I have been loading it in 12ga for a long time and my loading press is set for 3 dram by volume since Hodgdon literature indicates you can’t weight Pyrodex to the same standard as black powder. Wondering how to get 2 1/4 drams of Pyrodex?

On another note I came across this and wonder how true it holds:
In 12 gauge, a standard 3 dram load with 1-1/8 oz of shot travels 1200 fps. Each 1/4 dram equivalent that you add increases velocity 55 fps. Each 1/8 oz of shot that you add subtracts 35 fps.

I have tried to attached some Dram equivalent info I have collected over the years.
From sensible sources but I have no idea how accurate or reliable it is.

Not having any luck figuring out how to post an image.
Will try to PM you.

If I am not mistaken, Pyrodex measure the same as black volume wise. If that is the case, when loading muzzleloading shotguns, square loads are considered to be optimum. To me, a "square load" means same volume of black as shot. Some say it is not a "true" square load Ness the wad column is also the same. Be that as it may, when loading a muzzle loading shotgun OR black powder cartridges, I weight the shot charge that I intend to use, weigh it on the scale, pour that into my adjustable powder measure (adjusted to the max), then push the plunger up until the shot is at the top, this gives me the VOLUME of the shot charge, then whatever that is, that is the setting for my powder charge. I then set whatever loading equipment I am using to show those amounts whether I am loading a ML or loading cartridges. IF pyrodex is used in equal volumes as black, this should work well with that as well. If it measures different than black, I have no clue. Have never played with black substitutes.

The volume for weight conversions are a bit wobbly at best. Densities of black vary across granulations, manufacturers, and lots within makers and granulations. So using a volume of black as a benchmark for Pryrodex is somewhat crude.

May I ask why you are using Pyrodex instead of black?

Were I doing it, I think I would start with something arbitrary but quite low and then build up until I reached a desired, reasonable velocity.

"May I ask why you are using Pyrodex instead of black?"

I started out using Pyrodex because I live in a province that doesn't have any blackpowder seasons, so the stores do not carry very much in the way of blackpowder loading. Just the time I started loading BP shells Pyrodex was the go to here for those who do shoot PB. Some hype about it burning cleaner, etc. but after using it for over 15yrs I don't think there is any advantage over PB. The stores here carry Pydodex but its much harder getting PB in the granular size wanted. And you have answered the question you ask,"Densities of black vary across granulations, manufacturers, and lots within makers and granulations." Inconsistent supply and stores changing manufacturers based on whats available means constantly changing your loading regime.

Tamid,
For rifles, that sort of variation is critical. We weigh every charge so that minimizes the impact but, yes, a new lot of powder can matter a fair bit. When we find one that works we go all in.

For shotguns, I'm not sure that variation becomes critical. Maybe these generic figures work okay. But with all the granulations and formulations, and then using that guestimate to jump to an entirely different powder - seems challenging at least.

Decades ago, I shot Pyrodex because I did not know anything about black and Pdex was available locally. I still have a can sitting on a shelf, never to be used. After using the real thing, I would never go back. It is not hard to buy blackpowder via mail order, but I did not know about that so long ago.

I tend to use the odds and ends of various lots of Swiss powder, when I am loading for shotguns. I weigh out 80ish grains and see how it does, then try a bit more and try again, until i find something that seems about right. Not very scientific, but it works for me. I do not shoot a great amount of black in shotguns. I save it for cartridge rifles.

Pyrodex is extremely corrosive and nasty. It is difficult to get it all out of a rifle bore. Black powder cleans up easily and doesn't rot your bore right away. Once you use real black powder you will never go back to Pyrodex. 75gr in a 12 gauge shell works great. 67gr in a 16 gauge and 60gr in a 20 gauge. Black powder can be shipped right to your front door. I have half a can of Pyrodex left. If you want it, come by my house and I will give it to you for free.

Amen

At the risk of sounding redundant, Pyrodex is an "answer" to a perceived ill that was non-existent.

75gr in a 12 gauge shell works great. 67gr in a 16 gauge and 60gr in a 20 gauge

Im assuming that is double f?