Originally Posted By: craigd
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
LGF, good points--but you likely won't convince Craig....

....You hit the nail on the head when you said there's unanimity when it comes to the dangers posed by lead shot.

So the question really isn't whether lead shot can endanger wildlife. Rather, it's whether we've basically solved the lead shot problem with the steps we've already taken....

Thanks for the lecture Larry. You're wrong, yes I am convincible. We as a nation are much better off with reductions in various toxins. Lead is an excellent example. Take for instance LGF's link, the very fist reference study opens by saying 'lead poisoning in humans is very well known, our understanding about it in wildlife is at a mid 1800's level'.

I've only ever questioned your foregone conclusions. What's the difference between a foregone conclusioner and a denier? Maybe, all it comes to is that the foregone conclusioner has political decision making clout and the denier gets stuck with the demeaning label? What makes you think that you can take a foregone conclusion to the point that you want to and then hit the brakes?


Which "foregone conclusions" would those be, Craig? I've given you multiple opportunities to come up with even one credible "lead shot threat denier" with credentials somewhat better than yours or Keith's. You know, solid scientific credentials--like some global warming deniers. And one reason that the understanding of the lead poisoning threat isn't at anywhere near the same level in wildlife that it is in humans: We get all excited if we find humans sick or dying from something. We only get excited about wildlife when we a)Really care about the species in question. (For example, if scavengers are ingesting lead from shot but unrecovered wildlife, does anyone really care? Unless, that is, they're eagles!) And b)We have to be aware of what's happening to wildlife. Dead deer lying around are a good bit more obvious than dead quail or doves or woodcock. The only way we know those species are in trouble is if we observe a significant decline in numbers. At which point wildlife biologists do their best to determine what's going on. But birds tend to die in secret, and we don't find a very high percentage of the victims' corpses to do autopsies. Unlike humans.